Comment by djaychela | Hacker News Reader

Comment by djaychela | Hacker News Reader

For most of my life, my Mum and sister have owned horses, and unfortunately several of them have reached a state where they needed to be put down (the last two - one was due to chronic laminitis, and the last one due to old age and a pervasive respiratory issue which got drastically worse one day when we thought he was recovering).

The knackerman who deal with the last pony was so good at his job, it made what was a truly traumatic experience so much more bearable. I had walked around with Tim (the pony in question) after the vet had been and made him as comfortable as possible, and he had been leaning on me (he was in his twenties and I'd known him since he was a 3 month or so old foal).

When the time came to say goodbye, he was dealt with appropriately and passed away seemingly painlessly (the vet gave a lethal injection after a heavy sedative which saw him fall onto the floor pretty quickly). The knackerman left us time to say goodbye, and ensured that Tim's body was removed quickly and neatly, without us needing to see it happen. Moving an animal that weighs over a ton is clearly not easy, and it was done professionally and quickly. It was a relief to see him dealt with in a respectful manner, and was already a pretty horrible day was made much better by his professional manner and quick service.

I think jobs like these are so easily forgotten by people who don't have to deal with this sort of thing on a day-to-day (or even year-to-year) basis.

This is not how my Humane Society dealt with putting down a friend of mine's dog.

I've sadily had be in the room where a few animals were put down over my life.

The pricy vet drug was great. My dog felt no pain. Died in a millisecond. I died a bit that day too. The worse pain I have ever felt was over a pet.

My point is my Humane Society used a drug that slowly killed the animal. The animal did not look content. She looked at me, like "What's going on?". It wasen't my animal, but I felt it's misery. The only reason I was there is the owner couldn't handle the prolonged death. It was a good 8 plus minutes of dying.

My point is I don't know if the Humane Society purposely used a drug that didn't kill the animal immediately so the family could spend time with a dying pet. I don't know why they didn't use a drug that would stop the heart completely?

The horrid reason these dogs were put down was due to Section 8 housing laws. A busybody in the complex didn't like my friend who fell on hard times, and was trying to get her to move in abusive verbal ways. This horrid human just didn't like my friend, and had pull at the housing complex. She turned the dogs into Sec. 8 authorities for being a few pounds over 25. My friend put the dogs down. I still recall her asking me if by putting the dogs down was she being egocentric. I didn't say anything because she was literally living in a beach parking lot a few weeks before.

(Sorry about going on, and on. The death of any animal just tears me to pieces. Oh yea, I looked at the 42 page Section 8 lease. Yes---42 pages of "You can't do this, and you can't do that." My main point was I feel the Humane Society should use the most effective, fast acting, drugs available when they put an animal down.)

Purely speculation but drug companies a few years ago stopped shipping the chemicals for execution by lethal injection on moral grounds - vets may have been affected by that and had to resort to less effective substances

Pentobarbital, aka Euthasol, aka bluejuice, is a barbiturate and is what is commonly used for small animal euthanasia.

Europe imposed strict export controls on it and other drugs in 2014, but I don't think vetinary supply has been affected.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16281016

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenytoin/pentobarbital

I used to work on a farm run by vegetarians. As the only meat eater, they all thought it should be my job to do the dirty deed when any animal required killing. One thing I learned pretty quickly was that no animal wants to die. Killing the chickens was bearable, by I came to the end of my tether when I was called upon to help in the killing of a pig. It knew it was going to die, and fought it with all its might. Left the job shortly after.

Why would the pig know if was going to die? I've seen pigs butchered on a farm. The butcher just shot then once in the forehead with a .22. Instant lights out.

Pigs are extremely intelligent, on par with dogs at least, and I've seen rankings that place them as high as 4th, behind only apes, dolphins, and elephants.

Sure pigs are intelligent but a pig that's never seen a gun before doesn't know it's going to die.

If there are regular slaughters, smart animals might notice a pattern. "We never saw Fred again after he went to that strange shed. Then we never saw Tom after he went there. Why the hell are they dragging me over there now?!??"

This doesn't mean that any pig could articulate "I'm going to die". That isn't necessary. Nearly every ungulate (maybe not moose?) has a built-in mortal fear ready to surface at any time. New events, or repeated events with bad associations, bring out that fear. It takes a great deal of training to relax that.

It's reading emotions/social cues, not objects. Animals are frighteningly good at that.

Maybe dogs. Not pigs. I've seen it happen several times. The pigs didn't put up a fight or act at all abnormal.

The whole concept of thinking about animals dumber than they are makes killing them more acceptable.

My memory is hazy on this. I remember the pig being hung upside down, and this would have been a clear cue that something was going to happen. However, this may have been after it was killed. The reason it was hung was to drain the blood.

Related... the silence of the lambs thing I witnessed first hand. A bunch of sheep taken off to be slaughtered, standing in complete silence. Welsh sheep are never silent, so it spooked me a lot. No visual cues as to their impending doom, yet they all stood there like ghosts.

In butchering on farms, carcasses are hung upside down after the animal is killed.

From Thomas Hardy's book it is clear it is important the pig is kept alive until it has bled to death. Jude messes it up because he can't deal with it.

"One thing I learned pretty quickly was that no animal wants to die"

I would say, no healthy animal wants to die.

Agreed. I have not worked with animals for much of my life, but recognize an animal that knows when it’s time is up. For my experience, there is something very dignified about such cases.

Wasn't it a bit hypocritical of the vegetarians farming animals?

Could not agree more. I was young (18) and was easily impressed by fatuous reasoning. These people would feed the farm animals, profit by their sale, yet not eat or kill them. Weak reasoning at best, hypocrisy at worst.

I'm curious as to whether you still eat animals, knowing that you couldn't stomach slaughtering them?

Good question. Shortly after that experience I became a vegetarian and stayed one for many years (with many small relapses). Around five years ago I rescinded, mostly because of health issues. Also... it is very difficult to be vegetarian where I now live.

There’s a scene in the film of Jude the Obscure where Jude helps slaughter a pig. It looked pretty real to me even if it may have been the magic of movies. I think they show the full horror of that moment because it's an important moment for the character[1].

Anyway, I've been a vegetarian since not long after seeing that, going on 25 years now. I can understand and sympathise with feeling as you did. I understand but don't sympathise with the way your colleagues left the dirty work to you, very hypocritical of them. I've known a few vegetarians like that, it's more about their personal disgust and hence, comfort, than it is about anyone else's suffering. They're also the most fickle, in my experience, hunger will soon overcome less important emotions, like notions formed as child. They're the ones you'll hear saying “I was vegetarian for years but one day I was famished and all I had available was a burger… never looked back”.

You have principles they are yet to know.

[1] http://www.gutenberg.org/files/153/153-h/153-h.htm#chap10

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