In my experience people tend to become vegan:
1. for the animals; and/or 2. for the planet; and/or 3. for health.
I have never heard another vegan say they became vegan because they didn't like the taste of cheese.
Not me, but the gal I am dating is allergic to dairy, and so we had some fun finding vegan cheeses that did not have casein. It was nice to make a dish that typically has cheese, that we both could enjoy.
Honestly if it weren't for all the amazing fake meats, milks, and cheeses, I would find it a lot harder to be a vegan. As it is though, it's a piece of (vegan) cake :)
And my interpretation of the original question wasn't why someone wants to be vegan, it was why someone would want to eat vegan imitations of non-vegan food.
Piano keys were traditionally made of ivory, now, fortunately, they are made of plastic. Does the elephant butchery of the past mean I should not play the piano today? I don't think so.
Times change. When kinder and more sustainable alternatives exist, it makes sense for us to favour them.
The only way to end all this suffering is a good nuclear armageddon.
But of course what I said had nothing to do with being vegan because you don't like the taste of cheese. What I said was, if you like the taste of meat and cheese so much so that you can't do without a substitute of it, then why are you vegan? If you are vegan, for good ethical or environmental reasons, then why do you need to eat pretend-meat and pretend-dairy? Either you are vegan and you don't want to eat meat or dairy, or you want to eat meat or dairy and you're not vegan.
"I eat it because I like the taste of it" is exactly the moralising accusation levelled at non-vegans. If I have to go without meat and dairy to satisfy your morals then you have to go without pretend-meat and dairy to satisfy mine. You can't have it both ways. You can't preach to me that eating meat is murder and then turn your back and scoff down a pretend-sausage because you like meat. That's hypocritical.
And it only encourages people to eat more meat anyway.
I used to love steak, and fish, and various other non-vegan things. But I became increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of where those things came from, and eventually I had to give them up. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't. Having vegan substitutes just made it easier. I don't see the harm in that, neither do I see the hypocracy. I want the taste, but I don't want the suffering.
You can't. You have no idea where I come from. I never had to perform any mental gymnastics because I don't believe I contribute to any suffering by eating meat.
For example, maybe you "come from" (to be literal) such a place as North America, Argentina, or Western Europe, where people eat way too much meat and have no idea how to eat without meat? If so, then I grew up eating half or less the amount of meat you eat, and still do as an adult, I don't eat beef, most of the dairy I eat is not from cows bred in industrial farms, like yours, and I do not have to worry that I'm eating too much meat, or contributing to the destruction of the environment, as you would.
The bottom line is that you have some moral ideology that is yours and matches your life experience, but it doesn't match mine and I don't need to share it. And I don't need to make mental gymnastics to avoid sharing it, I just have no raeson to share it in the first place.
But I do have rasons to wonder why vegans, who don't eat meat and cheese, eat meat and cheese. Unless what they eat is not meat and cheese, in which case why call it meat and cheese?
I personally welcome the recent increase in vegan products and I hope it continues that way. You're still free to skip the vegan isle in the supermarket, fortunately.
I mean, you disagree with me so I must be worked up about what you say? What can I reply to that? There's only one way discussion quality can go after that, and that is down the drain.
Not to mention the casual sexism inherent in that kind of comment to users with clearly feminine identified usernames. "Calm down dear" and all that.
In any case, I didn't even state that you were worked up, I honestly wanted to know if the semantics was your only beef (lol). However, I can see how that may have come across as provocative and for that I apologize.
Nonetheless, I stand by what I said and I think you are indeed worked up. Hell, I'm worked up after this nonsensical back and forth. That's my assumption based on the amount of various emotions you put into your comments.
I doubt it.
Curious to find out more about where you might be coming from, I took a look through some of your past comments. One in particular caught my eye:
> "I don't know how people can do that, slaughter an animal they've raised themselves."
To me this suggests that do have compassion for animals. This doesn't surprise me, because virtually everyone does. However, having compassion for animals just doesn't sit nicely with eating them, so we come up with reasons to justify that illogical behaviour of ours. Otherwise we would not be able to live with ourselves.
I am sure you do eat less meat than many people. But I bet that you would eat a lot less again if you had to personally slaughter all the animals you eat. Especially given how easy it is to not eat animals at all.
And in response to your last question, I think it's mainly just because it tastes good. Vegan meats and cheeses could quite reasonably be called something else, and I would still happily eat them. Though having them named as they are does make them more discoverable. I can see why that might make you annoyed if you are in the business of making and selling dairy cheese, and you see the rise of vegan alternatives as a threat to your business.
With all the anger you seem to have towards veganism I sense you may be closer to an awakening that most. Perhaps soon you will be making delicious vegan cheeses yourself :)
Your assessment is exactly right and most people go vegan for the animals and the planet. You're also exactly right in the mental gymnastics most of us have partaken in before making the switch. It's a meme, but bacon is fucking delicious. I would love to continue eating bacon, but I couldn't keep blocking out the thought that this shouldn't go on like this. And if there is ever vegan bacon that comes close to the real thing, you can bet I'll be on that shit in no time, while simultaneously hoping I won't hurt any meat eaters feelings in the process.
I'm not sure where you live but in the UK we have something called This Isn't Bacon that I find rather delicious :)
In the UK recently we just keep getting more and more new vegan substitutes, and vegan options in restaurants. It's an exciting time!
> Either you are vegan and you don't want to eat meat or dairy, or you want to eat meat or dairy and you're not vegan.
This is some strange version of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Why can you not want to eat meat and dairy and yet be vegan anyway? Why can someone not be vegan for ethical reasons, and yet still miss the taste of cheese? That makes them not a "true" vegan, in some weird definition, but who on earth cares? The person is still not eating cheese. The end result is the same, whether you gatekeep the name "vegan" or not.
> You can't have it both ways. You can't preach to me that eating meat is murder and then turn your back and scoff down a pretend-sausage because you like meat. That's hypocritical.
This is where you've gone off the deep-end. Eating a pretending sausage is not "murder," and whether you like meat or not doesn't suddenly make eating the pretend-sausage "murder." No one's ethics are being violated because someone eats a soy product, unless it's ethics against the eating of soy, which is irrelevant to this discussion.
> And it only encourages people to eat more meat anyway.
[Citation needed]