Comment by don-code | Hacker News Reader

Comment by don-code | Hacker News Reader

I'd love if someone broke down _reasons_ for vaccine hesitancy. It seems like the strategies we should develop for addressing them would be different, and that there shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all strategy, as we're trying to do today.

So far, I personally have encountered the following viewpoints in my family and peer group (none of which I share) - in decreasing order of how much credence I'll give them:

1. I'm pregnant and don't know what it does to my baby.

2. I do not think the vaccine is safe, because we developed it too fast. Corollary: blood clots in two of them are my proof.

3. I agree the vaccine is safe and effective, but it was made with "aborted babies" [actually: stem cell lines, as are many vaccines that I'm sure they _have_ taken], and I will not take it on religious grounds.

4. I will not take the vaccine on principle, as it constitutes government overreach into our lives. It is irrelevant whether it is safe or effective.

That's not to speak of some of the other egregious ones I've heard that people believe, like the vaccine having an ICE tracker embedded in it to enable roundups (https://www.boston25news.com/news/health/local-leaders-vacci...).

Given that all of the communication I've seen has centered around safety and effectiveness, it seems like two out of these four cases are not being addressed.

For point 3, that's true of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, but not the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

Also, what about this reason? "I don't think the vaccine is effective, since we still have to wear masks and socially distance after getting it, so I'm not going to take the risk that it might be unsafe."

It's been a while since I looked into it but IIRC both Pfizer and Moderna used HEK 293 during testing phases. There isn't a vaccine available that is completely free of participation, however remote, in the use of the HEK 293 stem cell line or similar.

Pfizer and Moderna only used cells from aborted babies to test their vaccines. Johnson and Johnson uses them to produce doses of their vaccine.

How about:

5. I've already had COVID, and nothing thus far has indicated antibodies being that much less effective than a vaccine. If antibodies are claimed to wear off effectiveness, why wouldn't the vaccine just as much? Isn't the vaccine just an intentionally stimulated antibody response?

You are correct that there has not been time to do a thorough study of the differences between natural infection and the response to a vaccine. It is not crazy to want to wait a bit if you were recently infected.

However, there are good reasons to think that vaccines (particularly the mRNA-based ones) have a longer lasting protection than that a natural infection. They include only a very small part of the spike protein; with the booster, the force the body to create lots of targeted "memory" cells that are designed to last a long time. A natural infection may (i) target part of the virus that changes faster than the spike protein and (ii) without the booster effect, not produce as many memory B-cells.

Immunity goes away after a while, just like the flu. I had Covid in March of last year and donated antibody-rich plasma but was limited in time to how long I could donate for this very reason. And variants pop up that you don't have immunity to even if you still had antibodies. I'll be 2 weeks post my second dose of Pfizer for this very reason. The most common variant in the US is now B117 (the UK variant), which I did not have, but which the vaccine is effective against.

You do NOT want to get Covid-19. Get the vaccine. I still have to use an electronic natural gas detector in our kitchen to check for gas leaks since my sense of smell is still broken. My friend's aunt just died. Her asymptomatic daughter brought Covid-19 to Passover dinner and killed her.

It is important to consider vaccine hesitancy in marginalized communities. A reaction to this by an outsider, may include questions like, "But these are some of the people who are most affected by not vaccination." Which can be true, doesn't address their concerns. As always, this is a generalized statement. Marginalized communities are not monoliths. Statements about groups don't always speak for everyone in that group.

> Some communities of color, including Black communities, display higher levels of COVID vaccine hesitancy than the general population, due in part to an egregious history of medical maltreatment—from the Tuskegee experiments to forced sterilization, to the nonconsensual and uncompensated use of stem cells.[1]

[1] - https://www.templehealth.org/services/population-health/temp...

I'm all for vaccines. I recommend everyone get the Covid vaccine. My wife has the Pfizer vaccine. All my children have their vaccines.

My vaccine hesitancy comes for myself only. My autoimmune diseases. I developed Hypothyrodism literally 3 months after Tetanus shot only to find out that overseas you only need one every 30 years but we push them every 10 years in the USA. I was in perfect health got a physical all labs were fine. I got my Tetanus shot at that physical. 3 months later I went in because I was feeling very weak. Got diagnosed. I even have the lab work to back up my claims. 8 years later I had thyroid cancer and my hypothyroidism was diagnosed as Hashimotos. Maybe it was coincidence.

Second thing. Got a flu shot 5 years later (after Tetanus) and developed Psoriasis about 4 months after.

I think that a very small percentage of population can develop autoimmune responses permanently from vaccines. It's just not studied enough and happens in such a small percentage it's hard to track and correlate. Also certain auto immune diseases lay dormant for some time. So someone could develop hypothyrodism after a vaccine but never know it for years.

All that being said, I just can't take that kind of risk for something that isn't that deadly to me. I'll just continue on my Peloton and playing basketball 3 times a week. Try to keep weight low and eat healthy.

My sibling works for Pfizer. I can't say what they do and they won't take the vaccine. I think their hesitancy comes from doctors overprescribing antibiotics for UTI infections in their teens. Now they have severe IBS and ulcers. I think the vaccine hesitancy is a general distrust in doctors. Science knows a lot more about gut health now.

We're both very educated and left leaning.

If Covid was super deadly or something I would be the first in line. I promise you. I'll have to roll the dice for now. If Johnson and Johnson comes back on market I might, and that's a big might take that one.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962945/

https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/extras/02art9340w...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10648110/#:~:text=Other%20au...).

> UTI infections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

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