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Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

Pretty good chance that she didn't vanish but was killed, vanishing is a trick that is becoming exceedingly hard.

Especially disappearing from people with money and power.

> "I can't discuss that. It starts to get very very very scary, very very very fast." According to Bjercke, Dr Ruja never expected OneCoin to grow so big. People involved at the early stages have told him it was never supposed to be a billion-dollar scam. She tried to close it down, he says, but the dark forces wouldn't let her.

Even if you think you are going to get something and profit, one big reason to stay away from scams and fraud is that there are big players in the area that are 1. already established, 2. willing to do much worse things than you to get their way, 3. don't want someone else stepping on their territory. The mafia doesn't let petty thieves steal in their areas. You simply become a pawn to their schemes; then forced to do things you never anticipated having to do.

Also reminds me of the Inner Ring by CS Lewis [1]. Stay away from secret societies, fraud, corruption, and crime. There are some very bad people in the world with some very organized problems.

It's a much simpler life to just be an honest, unknown, middle class person.

[1] https://www.lewissociety.org/innerring/

Excellent read, and spot-on, IMO. Thanks for the link.

Very wise.

> To a young person, just entering on adult life, the world seems full of “insides,” full of delightful intimacies and confidentialities, and he desires to enter them.

> But if he follows that desire he will reach no “inside” that is worth reaching.

This curiosity can lead us to some pretty dark corners of the world. Especially on the internet.

Osama Bin Laden had an extremely long run, considering the CIA and NSA was after him at max agenda. Almost embarrassingly long.

Ayman al-Zawahiri (the defacto “leader” of Al-queda today) could easily be in some back room hidden in Pakistan right now. He technically is not listed as dead either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

Stranger things have happened in our world.

It depends on how much these experts law enforcement people care too. A random IRS guy found the Silk Road guy, not some fancy investigation. The question is anyone in India, or where ever with corrupt police and military, are even looking hard for her.

You probably need someone like the Americans, UK, or Russians (see Shamil Basayev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamil_Basayev) IRL to really care at this level.

Note: I haven’t listened to the podcast or deeply into her, just my point of view on that subject.

Bin Laden is one thing. But what’s the use of taking out the de facto leader of an org that will have no problem having a replacement immediately like Al-queda? It makes more sense when you’re doing a full on or strong attack like right after 9/11 or for When ISIS was brought down a ton.

—

For the Silk Road. That’s true. However the next two silk roads had the people arrested fairly quickly.

Note: I don’t know much or anything about hiding out or disappearing.

"living charismatic leader the enemy can't seem to catch" has much greater recruitment value than "dead leader martyred, but we'll keep fighting".

The use of it is depleting the leadership chain of command and leave third and fourth stringers at the top at best. It won't actually eliminate them but it will reduce their effectiveness greatly.

In Al Qaeda's case the futility comes more from the vacuum in their niche.

An IRS guy found the Silk Road guy? Do you have a source? I remember reading that DPR got caught after some faked murder for hire plot by a (what later turned out) corrupt FBI agent after leaking the Silk Road IP of his Icelandic servers, which were then silently taken over and monitored.

IRS agent Gary Alford found him first and was ignored. It’s detailed in American Kingpin and the following

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/business/dealbook/the-uns...

Nope, it is not that hard, just cannot live the big life. I am not so sure if she was the real head of operation anyway, more like the publicly visible rep(bit like a nominee director).

Could be. But also the Balkan mafia operates in another level when it comes to identities. There are stories, of eventually someone getting caught, and it is realized that the guy was wanted for 15+ years, by some (usually Western Europe) country, interpol and all, has changed their names 3 times and they live care free in another country.

They completely change identities, new names, new passports, new looks, new citizenship. With enough money, it becomes just a routine thing. It is like they run a Tor network ring, but on personal identities.

Often, they are found when they get in trouble with their old pals (usually unsettled scores), and not the police.

They're never truly living carefree. Everywhere you go you'll always be looking over your shoulder, waiting for the day they get you.

Katatonia - Omerta is an amazing song about this.

i am hating this fact. now each document is electronic validationed so cannot fake. no way for to leave and become new person. no way for to disappear. damn surveilance state.

In some countries you can buy real identities with real passports, including a citizenship. Should be possible to do in Serbia or Bosnia. Maybe even in Bulgaria (EU).

During the war in Yugoslavia a lot of records got lost and it is still common practice to reissue birth certificates based on some witness statements.

true, and for these i am many glad. by end of my life time, though, it is maybe not longer be possibile. biometric identity making it so by some time.

At the end of the day, you can shuck all your responsibilities, buy land in some remote area of the world (Midwestern USA, Canadian Yukon?, South America), and live as a hunter-gatherer - there’s nothing stopping you and after a certain point you’d be effectively isolated and identity-less

You'd have to find someplace without property tax at the least, I'd think.

Some LLC pays my property taxes, not sure who ;)

In what sense do you want to disappear? Do you want the option to abandon everyone you know and start a new life in a new place? You can totally do that. The state is not stopping you. If people from your former life report you missing and the police finds you, you can always say “i do not wish to be contacted by them” and if you are an adult they will leave you at that. Pretty extreme thing to do, but happens all the time.

Do you want to get away with murder? Run away from debts and obligations? Why would we as society let you do that?

Not all countries provide adequate protection for those who wish to go no-contact with family. Sometimes you can hide from former friends and acquaintances, but family members are allowed to continue trying to obtrusively contact you or confront you in public, or can involve the police again and again. In countries where family relationships are considered especially sacrosanct, the police may began to hassle you as the supposed bad guy if you are avoiding contact with parents.

That's actually a good point.

However, it becomes much murkier from a moral standpoint if you consider a scenario where you try to hide from a corrupt state for e.g. digging up dirt on a high ranking official. Or due to political, racial, religious oppression etc.

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