Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

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> Either you keep your head stationary and get the non-Spatial Audio sound (i.e. what they optimized for 90%+ of their audience)

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Using Spatial Audio on my AirPods Pro is insanely better, and still very much spatial, even without actively moving my head.

First, the sound appears to be coming from outside of my head, rather than between my ears -- no "headphone fatigue". It's vastly more comfortable and realistic.

Second, while dialog comes from straight ahead, sound effects like doors opening, cars honking etc. clearly come from angles, and things like wind come from all around, like an actual surround sound experience.

Third, because the dialog tracks are separated from other sounds spatially, the dialog is easier to understand as well. I used to sometimes put on subtitles for certain material to understand fully in normal stereo -- I never have to anymore with spatial audio.

> Taking traditional multi-source audio (Dolby/Atmos/etc) and jamming it into stereo is old tech

I've used all that old tech too, and for whatever reason Apple's spatial audio is leagues better. I'm not sure if it's something about being optimized for known headphone characteristics, or the head tracking, or something clever with the inward-facing microphones, or all of the above, but it's nothing like that old tech.

> now want to work backwards into what it may be useful for.

It's useful for listening, end of story. I'm honestly mystified why you think it's a gimmick. I can't even imagine going back to listening to movies and TV without it. (I project from my iPad onto a screen, connect my AirPods Pro, and it's basically like being in an actual cinema, but without waking anyone else up at night from booming surround sound.)

Does anyone happen to know of a non-headphone-specific solution for this, which actually does a good job? It doesn't need to work when I move my head, neither does the Virtual Barbershop[1] and yet the effect on my run-of-the-mill earbuds is still incredible.

I'm open to little hardware boxes, software that modifies my computer's audio as it plays, a filter for ffmpeg, etc, as long as I can use whatever headphones I want and the spatial effect is high quality.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

I've tried a bunch of them over the years, heck way back when there was an analog box you could buy that did it.

And there are still a ton -- heck, there's a checkbox built-in in VLC under Audio Effects > Filter > Headphone virtualization.

But none of them that I've tried come anywhere close to what Apple has done. I don't know why.

However, there is an official Dolby Atmos Surround Sound effect for Windows 10:

https://www.howtogeek.com/309853/how-to-use-dolby-atmos-surr...

I've never tried it, but if anything currently competes decently with Apple's version, that might be it.

Can you offer a good example video? I’ve done some binaural recording in the past, but my reaction so far to Apple’s spatial audio has been… kinda meh.

I remember the first thing I tried when it came out was the first episode of See on the Apple TV+ app. It's a great showcase for it.

It's sci-fi drama so has a lot of really immersive audio, Apple TV+ supports spatial audio, and the first episodes of Apple's series are free so it's easy to try.

Try toggling the Spatial Audio option as you're watching to really get a sense of the difference. It's huge.

Most of the content on Disney+ sounds great in my experience. The Guardians of the Galaxy 2 intro scene is a good demo scene.

Hamilton on Disney+ is my go-to to test/show off spatial audio. It really does sound like the audio is coming from specific places on the stage.

I think most of what you're saying applies to 3D TV, too. And that ended up being a dud. IMO the problem with both is that they're an awful shared experience, and a lot of TV watching is done by more than one person at a time.

It's weird because I've had the BEST experience with apple in terms of shared experiences. I go to share audio on my iphone, then I share with my wifes airpods. Seems to work fine.

Everyone is different, I suppose. A shared TV watching experience where we're both plugged into our own isolated audio and can't hear each other talk would be an awful experience for me.

Not only is everyone different, but we have different needs at different times. My partner and I use shared audio infrequently, but when we need it, we need it.

Our use case is watching something together in bed while the kids are going to sleep. We put our AirPods Pro in “Transparent” mode, which allows us to converse with each other just fine.

To say that “Your Mileage May Vary” would be putting it mildly. I accept that this feature may not be useful for you, in exactly the same way that Dark Mode in IOS is not useful for me, but seems to have its fans.

> and can't hear each other talk

That's what transparency mode is for. You can hear each other perfectly.

You don't need noise cancellation as much when you're at home. It's more for the subway, planes, etc.

Actually apple has a setting for this (at least on the pro's) which is called transparency. Works surprisingly well.

You get the TV / movie audio in ear, and then any other audio from outside.

We use it to keep an ear out for kids (bathroom breaks / falls off bed or whatever) and to chat with each other.

But yes - some people do hate apple products - so different uses I think for different folks.

My one MAJOR complaint is the volume of the mode switch sound on these things is way way too loud! Perhaps there is a setting for that I haven't found. Bong! in the ear is super annoying. Make it a click or something.

3D has tons of drawbacks though -- the image is less than half as bright, glasses are clunky and not used for anything else, there's still serious ghosting effects. It's really half-baked, alas. Also there's only a tiny fraction of content in 3D. (The best way to view 3D movies, funnily enough, is in a virtual theater on the Oculus Quest 2.)

Spatial audio is different. It has zero downsides over existing headphones, and nearly all movies and TV episodes are mastered in 5.1 so the source signal is everywhere.

And it's not meant for a shared experience. That's what actual surround speakers in your living room are for. But these days tons of movies and TV are consumed privately with headphones, and so spatial audio simply recreates a similar surround experience on the headphones you're already using.

So I think it's pretty different -- just a pure positive upgrade. It doesn't have tradeoffs like 3D does.

> (The best way to view 3D movies, funnily enough, is in a virtual theater on the Oculus Quest 2.)

I don't deny the drawbacks of stereoscopic 3D—even as a personal 3D fan, I'm not surprised it never caught on—but I don't think a VR headset is the best way to consume stereoscopic content. Because, well, you have to wear a headset!

I have a BenQ W1070 projector which supports stereoscopic 3D, and a Valve Index. For actual VR content, the Index is great, but for normal stereoscopic movies, using just the projector with a pair of special glasses is much more comfortable.

I do wish enabling 3D didn't dull the colors on the projector, but it's still clearly preferable to a headset IMO.

Oh sure I wasn't referring to comfort, just to the pure quality of the 3D experience.

A VR headset is the only solution I'm aware of that is full-brightness, zero-ghosting.

Ghosting, maybe, although I almost never notice it on my projector.

But, isn't "full brightness" just a function of how bright you make the projector? Which is to say, you could make a projector that's twice as bright as mine (mine isn't amazing, it cost less a a grand) and in 3D it would have the brightness of my 2D setup.

In theory, but there are good reasons why cinemas and home projectors don't "just" double (or really, need to quadruple because of how the shutters work).

Heat dissipation requirements go up hugely because the bulb is so much hotter.

You simply can't buy a home projector that is 4x brighter. I looked into it earlier this year -- they simply don't exist.

Because if they did, the fan noise required to cool the bulb would be so loud you wouldn't even be able to hear the movie.

However, a lot of advances are being made with both laser and LED "bulbless" projectors... so it might actually be coming in the not-so-far future.

You could also have multiple projectors. :) Or a bright TV.

> the sound appears to be coming from outside of my head, rather than between my ears

It’s a pity that Apple doesn’t provide that feature as a simple option that one can apply to any audio source.

It gets activated on any audio source in a surround sound format, it can’t be applied to stereo sources because stereo audio doesn’t contain any positional info

It’s possible to apply Dolby Headphone (or similar systems) to any stereo signal, to get rid of the “in your head” sound.

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