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Comment by gilbetron | Hacker News Reader

That's what I was most excited about, and agree it is a game changer. Hopefully we can get small e-pickups at some point - I have a 2004 Toyota Tacoma that I love, and it would be amazing with a frunk, but you can't really get small pickups that size anymore.

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> I have a 2004 Toyota Tacoma that I love, and it would be amazing with a frunk, but you can't really get small pickups that size anymore

You're not kidding! I was in the market for a small pickup and checked out the Tacoma and Frontier, which I previously understood to be "small" trucks. They're massive these days, just like the F-150! I guess it's perceived that there's no market for that size any more.

A small electric pickup would be a super handy thing to have around, potentially appealing to urbanites too since they can toss their groceries in the frunk. There's really no reason the frunk needs to be so big on the F-150 Lightning - that part of the design is really a head scratcher.

The new Ford Ranger is a smaller size, but it's perhaps the worst looking truck available. I'm not sure what Ford was thinking there.

Still much bigger than the Rangers of years past.

Indeed. I think the defining feature of a small pickup is the ability of an averaged height person to be able to reach over the sides and grab something from the bed of the truck. All of the current trucks on the market you can barely even see in to the bed. It makes it super hard to load the bed without actually being in it. Trucks today have become so much more vanity symbols than anything else.

This. I had an old VW pickup which was a charm to use for my small business. Could also park it in tight spots too.

The new ranger is the size of my 99 F150. I have an 01 ranger that is way smaller.

The only thing the same is the name.

Agreed on looks - I actually declined buying one because of that.

That said, I really wish they would have started there. I want an electric truck. I don't want one anywhere near as large as an F150. I understand F150s sell better so know why they went that route, but an electric Ranger/Colorado could really dominate the fleet market.

Maybe GM will see as an opportunity to electrify the Colorado instead of the Silverado (unless there are already public plans to do so).

I don't know much about trucks, but I looked up both on the Ford website. The Ranger's front area is slightly curved while it is flat on the F-150. Aside from that, the trucks look identical to my novice eyes. I can't say I find either particularly appealing.

They look quite a bit different in person. The Ford Ranger has a very muted look where as most trucks these days have an agressive look. It looks like it was designed not to be noticed.

Trucks, vans, suvs are the size they are, at least in part a due to CAFE regulations that give fuel efficiency concessions to vehicles with a larger wheelbase.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_econo...

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Ford did a lot of internal research, and focus groups, on the marketability of differently designed electric trucks to their primary customers and came to the conclusion that their consumers like the way the trucks look and are more likely to adopt electric trucks if they look the same and offer tangible benefits. Consider the massive frunk, that can hold 400 pounds of gear, or the 2k hauling capacity, or the on board outlets, including a 240v plug, or all the fancy new towing features (that are hopefully not useless vapor ware). If I was in charge of a large truck work truck fleet that averages less than 200 miles/day I'd be replacing at least a few of my oldest trucks with these and give them to the senior guys to break in and see how they do. This truck could be a serious game changer. Ford's not my favorite vehicle manufacturer but they've got my respect for building a serious electric truck at a reasonable price.

You should have look at the Toyota Hilux, not Tacoma.

I don't think those have been sold in the US for over 30 years. I miss mine.

I wonder if there are hidden systematic considerations that make it so that trucks the size of Japanese mini trucks simply appear to not exist in the united states. Here's the first DDG link about these trucks: https://jpnautoimport.com/mini-truck%EF%BC%86jdm

From what little I know, I believe it's related to this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Crash test safety is the answer.

What we need is an electric Subaru Brat.

Funny, I’m building just that! https://www.instagram.com/bratindustries/

That is awesome.

That's what I love about HN. Make anything up, and someone's done it and posted pics. It's like being able to wish things into existence just by posting a forum comment.

Next: Cold fusion jet pack!

>you can't really get small pickups that size anymore

Write your representative and tell them to thank the EPA and NHTSA for doing their jobs. The death of the small pickup is squarely the fault of the confluence of fuel economy and crash safety regulations.

I'm not following - how would a smaller (and presumably lighter weight) truck have worse fuel economy than the giants we see today?

Fuel economy regulations are based on vehicle footprint and weight. Small trucks are small and (were, still would be if we still had them) fairly heavy for their size making them bad for compliance. A small vehicle is also going to have harder lines (less physical space for clean curves) so will have worse aerodynamics.

That is interesting. I wonder if that is why Ford got rid of their small pickup (The Ford Ranger) for several years from 2012 until 2020.

It did come back last year, probably after meeting new regulation requirements.

That's exactly it. IIRC they even said so at the time. They were already producing the "new ranger" elsewhere at the time so they could have just imported it but looking at the MSRP difference between it and a based f150 vs the size of the market they decided it wasn't worth it.

On the other hand, all these arguments completely go away for electric cars, so there would be space for smaller e-trucks.

You think the government won't set energy efficiency requirements for electric vehicles similar to mpg?

They put energy requirements on dishwashers, they're not going to give EVs a pass.

> Write your representative and tell them to thank the EPA and NHTSA for doing their jobs.

It seems like those regulations aren't working they way they ought to if the result is to encourage people to drive bigger cars than they need and to have more cars on the road that minimize the safety risk to the occupants while maximizing risk to everyone else...

> The death of the small pickup is squarely the fault of the confluence of fuel economy and crash safety regulations.

...and the chicken tax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Thanking them for doing their jobs was sarcasm. The chicken tax existed for decades and small pickups were fine though I'm no fan of it in principal.

>>>It seems like those regulations aren't working they way they ought to

Regulations rarely end up with the outcomes the people pushing for the regulations publicly claim the desired outcome is.

Ahhh. So that's why it happened, makes sense now. These are the types of regulations I want to see disappear (or, rather, modified to align better with desired incentives).

My dream car is an electric 1955 ford f100.

Well... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV

Those are ugly as sin though.

My "when I'm rich" car is actually an old truck like that rejiggered to be an EV.

Yeah like the original Subaru Baja, or even better, the iconic El-Camino.

The 2022 Hyundai Santa Cruz [1] looks like it'll be much smaller than the current crop of trucks (though still larger than the compact trucks of 20 years ago).

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36125131/2022-hyundai-san...

This is one of my biggest complaints about trucks these days. I have a newer Tacoma and it is the same size as my dad's 2008 Tundra.

Ford is supposedly coming out with a smaller pickup, the Ford Maverick, that I think is similar in size to the old Ranger.

but will be a horrible unibody truck

And the 2004 is large compared to earlier small pickups. Vehicles keep getting unnecessarily larger.

I drove a 1997 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab for about 12 years. I recently came across a 2021 Ford Ranger while I was running some errands and have not been able to get it out of my head. It looked like it's practically twice the size of the 97 model. It's a full 12" longer, 8" wider, 6" taller... But the bed length has remained the same or gotten shorter. I don't pay any attention to this stuff but it is strange to me, I don't understand why mid-size and light-duty trucks are / feel so gargantuan today.

The first thing that we need to change about the perception of these vehicles is we have to stop calling them e-pickups. Because e usually means economy. And economy means cheap and flimsy and no legroom. People who are buying Ford pickups don't want cheap and flimsy and no legroom.

Just call it a pickup.

E means electric

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