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Comment by terminalserver | Hacker News Reader

This is a very strange justification for having an obnoxiously loud vehicle.

If you want to be seen wearing bright leds.

It wouldn't help. There's literally nothing that can be done to get a cager's attention, if they're distracted. I've had to knock on windows, to prevent people from merging into me. Loud pipes, hi-viz clothes, horns. Nothing helps. People are just too self absorbed to pay attention. You people see cops (sometimes) and vehicles bigger than yours and that's about it.

Perhaps treating the other road users as people instead of derogatory terms like cagers would help. In addition, choosing a mode of transport which is literally 20 times more lethal per kilometer than driving is your responsibility. You can always choose to be a ‘cager’.

Motorcycles are lethal _because_ of cars.

Blaming people for injuries are deaths caused by cars is the most discusting tactic the car industry has used to fight against road safety. Just look at any newspaper article about car drivers murdering children: they are always phrased as in "inattentive child was looking at his cellphone and died in a road".

I find it incredible that walking on a street is illegal in parts of America. Honestly, the only reasonable solution to this is a Netherlands-style law that makes the biggest vehicle automatically guilty for all accidents they caused: this alone being deaths down tenfold.

I wish it was that simple. First of all, around half of the lethal accidents with motorcycles do not involve another road user. The other half is often caused by the motorcyclist due to speeding, insufficient distance or incorrect clothing and protection.

Second of all, while cars have seen half a century of safety improvements, motorcycles have lagged behind. Nevertheless, road use and traffic density have increased. Riding a motorcycle is akin to driving a car without a seatbelt, without a crumble zone and without ABS (and even then it is more lethal). Accidents happen. It is how you prepare for them that makes the difference.

Yes, I also find it incredibly stupid how the US has become so walking and cycling unfriendly. The reason why the Netherlands is different is not due to legal or regulations. It's because we have had leaders who made long-term plans to separate the various types of traffic. This means we separate the risk groups. You won't find many walking on roads with traffic exceeding 50 kph (30 mph). You won't find cyclists on highways. That is the solution.

In my country, in 90% of motorcycle deaths cars are not involved. It’s simply people going too fast or otherwise misjudge corners.

It's not strange, it's exceedingly common in the motorcycle community.

I don't have loud pipes but I think it could help in blind spots, that's about it. I just don't ride in blind spots instead.

That should not be necessary. Bicycles don't need it, do they?

Moreover, with modern blind spot cameras, automatic collision avoidance systems (which will probably, cheaply, equip every electric car), I hope these concerns will completely fade away.

> Bicycles don't need it, do they?

The traffic fatalities of bicyclists in cities would like a word with you...

I believe the solution is not loud noises.

There are plenty of other options.

Most importantly, slowing down cars in residential or dense areas. The slower vehicle traffic is moving, the less likely that a collision will be fatal. (By a lot!)

And yet if I permanently had a siren on my bicycle you’d think I’d be an asshole.

Ok, well I have been hit by vehicles on various bicycles five times. Always follow the laws, ride the lanes, lights, blah blah blah. On my liter bike with an after-market exhaust, people mostly get out of my way.... so I mounted an air horn on my bike handlebars, people now see me magically.

At least that's better than loud exhaust pipes. Loud bikes activate the fight-or-flight system in a way that klaxons do not.

Maybe that's because the loud bikes have frequencies and intonation modulation close to those of a menacing voice? (or growl)

At least in Japan, some bikers (bōsōzoku) do on purpose some kind of sounds similar to somebody arguing angrily (and snarkingly!).

But I don't want to accept neither as a solution air horns and vuvuzuelas competing for my attention and for the privilege of prematurely obliterating my cochlear hair cells.

There are other ways, let's do this. We are smarter than that, aren't we.

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