Comment by game_the0ry | Hacker News Reader

Comment by game_the0ry | Hacker News Reader

COVID forced the experiment of full time remote office work on corporations without managers having any influence over how long it would be implemented.

So now we know the result of that experiment - just look at the S&P500 / Dow market caps. An over-simplification, I know, but hey, that's price of the stock is the CEO's score card.

Corporate middle management and CEOs no longer have any excuse for maintaining the amount of office space that they do, so they're now resorting to empty, superficial reasoning. Case in point:

> "Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote."

The CEO needs to be an extraverted person, the role requires that type of personality, especially for a high profile corporation like Apple. Therefore, CEO needs to twist his brain into mental gymnastics in order to justify the 10 year lease s/he signed just 2 years ago ( or in the case of Apple, the capital expense of Apple's big, round HQ building).

"Synergy! Cross pollination of ideation! Innovation! Business jargon! MBA buzzwords!" - so says every American CEO.

yawn

Personally, I did enjoy office time pre COVID, but the commute nowadays (I have to take public transportation bc I live in NYC) is not something I look forward to. I also know I have been more productive.

So we all have to suffer a little more so that the CEOs and middle managers feelings feel better, but at least remote work will be more common than ever before.

I've been a mostly remote employee (at a company that is mostly not remote) for about 7 years now, so the shift to 100% remote had minimal impact on me, but had immense impact on most of the teams I work with.

I think there will be a bit of a pendulum swing as things open up and then a normalization somewhere in the middle.

I'm an introvert, and a "Highly Sensitive Person" and I find remote work to be really helpful for me. But as a product manager, the shift to 100% remote, especially by folks who are not accustomed to it, wreaked havoc on some of the planning/design/brainstorming work we generally do in person between each release.

I'm very happy that there's some return to normalcy. I hope the pendulum doesn't swing too far, and I hope that companies focus on working onsite when it makes sense instead of just because.

But I do think you're right about CEOs, manager types and some extroverts - some will look for any reason they can to go "back to normal".

Why "brainstorming" has to be in person? On Slack or other service is much more inclusive as it include voices of people who are not great at getting themselves heard in a live setting but they have great ideas. Plus everything is traceable.

Not all brainstorming has to be in person. Many things can and should happen asynchronously (even if we're all in the office). But not all forms of collaborative work are equal.

I addressed your question (why does this have to be in person) in another HN thread [0] a number of months back and I'm copying that comment here. The rest of that thread (parent and children) explore this in more depth.

> I'm talking about conversations that might take all day, or days. Breaking down enormous problems. Deep collaborative work. Can you do this in a virtual room? Yes. Will you achieve the same outcome? Early results (in my case) seem to indicate the answer is "no".

> I want the ability to pace around the room at times. Look my collaborators in the eye. Pick up on non-verbal cues that are often impossible to see remotely. Step away as a group to share a much needed lunch break.

> And when passionate people are involved, and many viewpoints are present, the ability to all argue/debate a topic vigorously - even show frustration at the right moments - and then all share a beer at the end of the day, is critical. Having that same vigorous debate on Zoom and then dropping off to our individual lives doesn't leave room for reconnecting with each other as humans - something that is critical for maintaining relationships.

> Not every project requires this kind of interaction. But for things that do, the remote format just doesn't work well for everyone.

- [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24793079

> "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built"

Easy to say when you're not commuting an hour to and from work five days a week. I would bet Tim isn't too far from the Apple HQ. I say this as someone who does not like working from home but does live very close to the office.

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