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Comment by rightisleft | Hacker News Reader

This is great. Work-from-home is a huge cost of living increase that workers need to be compensated for.

Also, The US tax code needs to bring back the home office deduction for W2 Employees.

When WFH I would like to have a good external display for my laptop. Ditto mouse and keyboard. I would like to be comfortably warm in winter. Being cool enough in the summer is just a matter of opening windows where I live. I would like a decent desk and chair, or standing desk etc. These all cost money. At the moment some of this is born by my employer and some by me. If WFH lasts as a widely available option for several years I expect that the balance of who pays for what may change. Of the costs I listed, heating is by far the biggest deal for me - I live in an old, hard-to-keep-warm house.

But... WFH also brings savings. I used to spend significant amounts of money commuting, which is funny given how much I hated every second of it. That money stays in my pocket now. I know that the option of bringing lunch with me every day was always present, but it is the case that I eat a lot more home prepared food now my office is in the same building as my fridge, so I certainly save a bundle there.

Where I live, there is some provision in the tax code for WFH expenses, but really its so small that it might as well not exist.

What my point in all this? It is that I don't think the issue is nearly as clear cut as you make it out to be. Maybe WFH is a cost of living increase. Maybe it's a saving. Which depends on the nature of your work, the distance you used to travel, the size of cost of your living space and a host of other factors.

The cost of your commute is just as tightly related to your employment as the cost of home office supplies, etc. You wouldn't have considered it as personal savings if your employer was already covering all work-related costs.

If we aren't going to start expecting employers to cover the entire cost of employment, then we should at least be finding a good balance.

Why does everyone seemed so concerned about home offices being paid for by employees when they weren’t paid for the gas, car repairs or the time spent commuting to work before that?

We lost that discussion before it even began: It was just the standard everywhere, so it was hard for a particular group of employees to change it, especially considering the state and priorities of unions.

Now this is a new development, a new discussion. Workers in tech actually have leverage, so it is a good time and situation to advocate for better rights.

Well, in a very hot labour market in a big city, you will actually have to pay more for workers if you're far enough that people can't take transit conveniently. That means they have to buy a car, and drive it every day, so why take the job paying effectively less? In a sense, the market already is accounting for things like the cost of gas, somewhat. It'll be true for WFH as well.

Other than that, in general, previous wages were negotiated with the old work-in-the-office dynamic. Now that the terms have changed considerably, it seems only natural to ensure one isn't getting the short end of the stick under the new contract. At the very least run the numbers and make sure you break even?

>huge cost of living increase that workers need to be compensated for.

what is the huge cost of living increase here? i dont have to pay for gas/bus pass anymore, overpriced parking, overpriced food, overpriced coffee. i had a 1 time cost to buy a nice monitor and peripherals but this benefits me as well.

Heating, electricity, furniture, maybe a seperate room, internet.

It's worse the poorer you already are on average, I figure. My cousin was switched to WFH and she had no where quiet to work. Always someone shouting or kids playing too loud. Fixing that sort of issue is not easy when cash strapped. If WFH becomes obligatory there will be some who will have no where to work, in the sense of office space. Seems like a potential poverty trap.

An extra bedroom for a home office in NYC is a significant cost. For a median priced apartment in Brooklyn that will easily be $15-20K extra a year.

For people in cheaper cities it might be less of a burden.

Not disagreeing, but there is also a drastic cost reduction from less commuting.

Now I’m also in a state where a 5 bedroom house costs less then a studio in SF. So home space isn’t a big concern.

Employees were never compensated for commutes which is usually far worse.

Maybe, but you also know what your commute time/costs are going to be up front so you can calculate it into your wage/salary so you can make an informed decision.

Also, I think you'd be surprised at some of the costs being shoved onto the employee.

Let's take ATT wfh customer service for example. They require you to:

-Have an office closed off by a door and must have complete silence

-Have your own laptop with a webcam that must match X specs, be less than Y years old, and have Z operating system. Must be a laptopfor the Walkthrough.

-Have an ATT approved internet provider with min/max up/download speeds (but if they charge you for installation don't worry! They will refund you up to 100 for the installation. They do also say they will give an undisclosed amount once a month to offset some of the internet costs, and since it's a month behind it's reimbursement.

-must have landline installed and mention no help with installation or monthly bill, and seriously who has a landline any more?

-they require a Walkthrough of your whole living space and workspace and it has to be approved.

-availability is all over the place, they expect you to be able to take any shift at any time, because hey, you're at home, why not?

So let's recap. They want you to go out of pocket to start with them, they require faster internet than their clogged call centers could ever hope to reach (felt like dial-up when you needed to search records, look up resources, etc). You can't have kids around, nor family/roommates. They can access your webcam to spy on you at any given moment. Any shift, any time, weekends and holiday availability are a must.

And this is one of the better wfh companies. The shit I've seen pulled since the pandemic has been mind blowing.

Indeed has become a cesspool of fake jobs, or sales masquerading as customer service, the other day I saw a customer service position that paid salary, yet the actual job paid by commission only, and at the bottom changed it to 'customer success representative,because it was gasp Sales!

I've seen all this helping family/friends try to find real WFH solutions. A few months ago it was possible, now it feels untenable.

If I never one more' customer service' job posting that says 'self-starter/motivated'ot won't be soon enough.

I can't imagine how shitty it is right now for the people that have no choice but to wade through the cesspool that has become WFH

edit-formatting

>And this is one of the better wfh companies. The shit I've seen pulled since the pandemic has been mind blowing.

That's extremely disturbing but it's definitely not "one of the better wfh companies."

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