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Comment by grogenaut | Hacker News Reader

I'm trying to get my son and his girlfriend to live at home for a few years post graduation. He wants to move out into a place in seattle. She's a bit more about saving money. The math is that they'd have all loans paid off and a 200k down payment about 4 years out of college if they live with us, and they'd have loans paid off if in 4 years and < 15k savings if they moved to a smaller condo.

Important side note: they're both major home bodies so they wouldn't take advantage of living in a cool neighborhood.

To me it makes such massive sense to just bum it in their seperate upstairs 800sqft apartment and cheap food/rent/etc to bootstrap their lives instead of moving out. But it's a fight.

Luckily so far she's moved him from being very much in the NEET camp to actually looking for a job. But covid completely nerfed my ability to push him to have a job last summer (his pre-junior summer).

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PERSONAL RANT YOU DON'T NEED TO READ, BUT I NEED TO WRITE:

I will add something to your son's point: being independent from my family was more important to me than saving money, especially if their loans are only 4 years away from being paid off. In fact, it bootstrapped all kinds of good behaviors around how to socialize with others, make friends, find a job, fix my own toilet, do laundry, pay taxes, find a new hair stylist, shop for clothes, etc etc etc.

It gave me the independence to move even further, and find work paid literally 10x more in a few years. No amount of saving would make up for that.

I can't imagine how much more stagnate my life would be if I had done the "smart thing" and put my life on pause instead of doing what I wanted from the get go. Death is much less stressful to think about when you're living aligned with your goals and values.

As someone in a similar situation as OP's son (although undergrad) and looking to move out...

Independence and personal space MATTER, please consider how your son may feel about living close to you. It may hurt, but it's important to understand the mindset behind the decision.

agreed. I moved out as soon as I could support myself. it wasn't because I hated my parents; they're pretty good as far as parents go. I feel like it's hard to actually be an adult when you live with your parents.

as an example, my dad used to always ask when he could expect me home when I went out. not being nosy, he just had a certain "night lock up" routine for the house. it wasn't an unreasonable question to get from a man who was paying for my housing and food, but it was a question I no longer wanted to answer at that point in my life.

Yeah I'm trying to figure out where I'm essentially asking the same things of him and putting pressure on him. But I've also been in completely hands off mode for the entire pandemic.

This is my two cents, living at home with my parents full-time since the pandemic started.

Living near them 24/7 made me reflect much about my behavior around them and my desire for independence. Living together can become rough when trying to get privacy and even small differences in opinion/lifestyle can turn into intoxicating moments.

e.g. during breakfast my parents discuss their political opinions and I honestly disagree with all of them. I stay quiet to prevent controversy, but it’s one of those moments that ruin your morning.

They’ve been very hands off as well, but some micro interactions can get grating over long periods of time. It’s just parenting stuff.

TLDR: I’m extremely grateful for my parents and their unwavering support during the pandemic. We’ve grown closer together as a family and I wouldn’t trade that for anything. However, this experience reinforced my desire to move and forge my own path, away from them or their judgement.

Hope my perspective helps a bit!

I went to college a 12 hour drive away from home, rather than something in-state for exactly this reason.

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

$185k/48 = $3.85k in monthly costs saved by not living independently. I can see it as being possible in Seattle, but on the high end. I would assume comparable abodes to sharing your parents house would be cheaper.

I also would not have wanted to stay with my parents in my 20s though, at least not with my specific parents.

Yeah - I think it's highly dependent on what your parents are like.

I've known people who lived at home for a year or two to save money, but I wouldn't have been able to have any independence.

Yeah $200k of savings in 4 years is maybe $40k/yr of savings, plus optimistic investment returns for the first 3 years. But GP also mentioned all loans paid off, so that adds another $10-20k/yr, depending on what their loans look like.

It's not impossible to save that much money straight out of school, but if you're making that much then you could still save a decent chunk even if you're paying $2k/mo for an apartment (which comes to $100k over 4 years).

Several of my young amazon coworkers had 500-800k at 4 years out of college with the stock going up. One basically retired (he is very frugal and allergic to everything and never goes outside) at 4.5 years.

I'm just pointing out the possiblities for them.

That’s great! Sounds like they could probably afford to not live with their parents then.

Guy actually started a game studio and moved in with his parents in Gainesville florida ironically. His costs were 12k a year.

The assumption is probably that their salary essentially goes to savings.

Sounds like it was only the man who wasn't inclined to work, and that the woman has been changing that tendency, as well as presumably having a decent income of her own that's being considered here. So something north of 50K after tax per year for a two-income couple isn't too ridiculous by any means.

185K delta between the two scenarios feels wrong, though - that's almost 4k a month, an astonishing high rent bill for a couple just out of college. The "find an apartment on their own for 1-2K, maybe even with roommates, but ideally just in a cheaper area" option should be seriously considered compared to living at home. Get a bunch more savings AND some very valuable life experience!

There's a spectrum. I only listed 2 options.

One end is living at home with a faang job. The other is them living on cap hill with around 3800 / month expenses and the 58k income you mentioned. The 3800 is her estimate which checks out.

There are obviously many more options in the decision matrix but this is a HN post :)

It's quite easy. He's a creative writing major. His girlfriend however has a good shot as a FAANG job. Running an Amazon / Microsoft / etc Seattle SDE1 job with no raises, at $120k a year, 27k in loans and $9k / year in room/board at our house == ~275k. Of which over 4 years, 90k is a lot to spend over the top for 2 kids who don't leave the house and only want pc upgrades.

Versus them spending about $4k/month on living expenses out of house, 48k/year.

That's also assuming she has a FAANG job, not say, the same expenses but $58k/year starting data eng job.

false dilemma.

many parents contribute to their children's first downpayment, if you can't or aren't interested then just leave the discussion.

they don't have consensus on wanting to live with you while you believe they have the skillsets to save $200,000 in 4 years. who gives af if there is a theoretical savings optimization possible, that's not your problem stop acting like it is.

you are going to have an empty nest, you'd be better off admitting thats what you are avoiding instead of acting like your concern is their savings potential, which is just coincidence. sure, I could be way off, but the constant is that you already gave them the support system to integrate into society, this seems largely successful so don't worry about those choices.

let the homebody go have the option of trying IPAs at all the microbreweries in walking distance. not your problem.

> who gives af if there is a theoretical savings optimization possible, that's not your problem stop acting like it is.

In some families, caring and advising continues past the 18th birthday. Northern European culture is the anomaly in this regard.

This conversation is about college aged 22-28 year olds who have been under the care and advisement of their parents far far after their 18th birthday.

They should be able to find a nice 1br in Seattle for 20-25k/yr. Even in the most expensive neighborhoods it shouldn’t be more than 30k. Your numbers are higher than I’d expect

Living with them is probably more than just rent.

Be careful. Sometimes the ease of living at home can be addictive and then they turn into wastrels. Don’t underestimate this risk.

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