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Comment by hardwaregeek | Hacker News Reader

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need to touch a game.

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Not a psychologist, but I would guess that playing games at all times is more a symptom than a cause. A symptom of depression? A coping mechanism for chronic anxiety? A happy well adjusted person does not try so hard to escape reality or responsibilities.

Demeaning them by calling them man-children is not going to help them in the slightest.

Depression is often characterised by a struggle in finding the motivation / desire to do something you love: if they love video games and can play them 12 hours a day, it's very possible they simply... don't care about the outside world. A job, family, exploring the world, these are all things some people just don't like. They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing!

> They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing!

I'd argue that doing one thing for the rest of your life is a classic definition of mental illness.

I disagree, it's an mental illness if it interferes in your desired pursuit. For example, there is nothing wrong with playing games ur whole life.. except if you decide you want to get a girlfriend and can't. Now you're dealing with a mental illness.

Also if it interferes with your health, and a few other things. If playing video games takes precedence over, say, taking regular showers, or even basic exercise? I'd call that a mental illness too.

But I agree with the main point: “person wants to live in a way I don't like” is not mental illness.

Tell that to the vast majority of humans throughout history who not only did 1 thing their whole life, but did the same thing their parents did before them. In some cultures to this day, trying to do anything other than what your family has already established as the family business is viewed as disrespectful and an insult to your lineage.

They have not being doing "one thing" - they have been farming, having sing-songs, getting married, having kids, fighting wars, and so on.

And a virtual world can be every bit as varied. You see someone sitting at a computer playing the same video game all the time. They see farming, running dungeons with guild mates, forming relationships, crafting things, fighting wars and so on.

Defining a metal illness is non trivial, but for starters, their mental state needs to cause them or someone else harm or discomfort. But it's also possible that the discomfort isn't caused by their mental state, but the society they are in who rejects them.

In 1000 years no one will remember what that person in their virtual world did any more than you know what a random person 1000 years ago did, but if they feel every bit as accomplished and emotionally fulfilled, then what's the difference?

Now if their involvement in their virtual world means they are unable to sustain themselves in the physical world (not showing up to work, health problems, etc) then we have a problem that needs addressing. But living in a virtual world, in and of itself, is perfectly valid.

Except none of those things is actually happening. Its like saying playing Monopoly is the same as being a real estate magnate. It just isn't, and emotionally the people using the video game as a crutch know it.

Then as software developers, we don't actually do anything because software doesn't actually happen

Depression also manifests with addictions though through self medication like alcohol, drugs, and even video games. It gets trickier with comorbidities like ADHD where one has addictive tendencies resulting in what appears to be simple lack of motivation and laziness at a surface level.

As someone who has chronic anxiety and depression, for me it goes both ways. I do it as a coping mechanism, but doing it too much also worsens it. When I do things like go outside or make an effort to see people it goes down.

Completely agree calling someone a man-child does not help. We would condemn that kind of language said about woman.

I understand that addiction is borne out of mental illness, feelings of inadequacy, etc., but it’s really hard for me to be sympathetic when I had to go to sleep to them pathetically screaming like little children into their headsets for a year

I had a period of time where I was pretty hooked, to the detriment of my studies. I don't think I was coping or escaping; at nineteen they were very intricate yet offered a clear progression to mastery. As a young adult, you haven't had the chance to develop mastery yet (which everyone hungers for) and nobody has given you the keys to something really complex before.

Biggest reason I moved on, I think, was quite simply that my horizons rapidly broadened. So, before passing judgement, I'd want to see what became of these young men in a few years time first.

One young man in my boy's cohort got addicted. Sat and drank beer and played video games until exhausted; then slept on the couch and repeat the next day. Two years later, died of liver failure.

Are you sure he didn't have an alcohol addiction? I'm not convinced inactivity and video games lead to liver failure.

Drank nothing but beer. No solid food. Skeletal by the end. So call it what you will.

What made them "man-children"?

I know people are different and I'm not wired the same way, but I have trouble understanding how people can play games for more than a few hours a week.

Games like Pac Man and Tetris are algorithmic workloads. It's not much different than driving a semi or forklift, except you're not paid by a company for the work you do. It puts human brains closer to acting and performing as algorithmic worker bee agents.

Modern AAA titles are the same thing, just with more degrees of freedom.

I understand that there are dopamine triggers, but game engines subject players to the same repetitive thing over and over until the game ends. Kill this thing, collect 12 pelts, etc. There aren't very many variations on this theme, either. I can't grapple with how this squares with the limited time we have in life.

I think the best argument from my perspective is that Animal Crossing has you literally working to pay off a fake mortgage to buy digital items you don't need. You shouldn't stress out over a game.

I've enjoyed games for their mood, setting, music, and narrative, but gameplay itself is work. I'd rather just have a movie or narrative story. I already work too much.

Most games are power fantasies as well as narratives. You get to role play as a overpowered avatar.

> I'd rather just have a movie or narrative

Open world games _are_ the equivalent of movies or narratives. think Skyrim, for example.

I think the point is you actually have to do stuff (often menial collect n of thing tasks) to advance the plot. once the suspension of disbelief is broken, you are no longer a valiant hero saving the kingdom. you are pushing buttons to complete arbitrary tasks that trigger the next cutscene. if you don't enjoy the core gameplay, why not just cut out the tedium and watch tv or a movie?

> why not just cut out the tedium and watch tv or a movie?

Well, I would dispute it is tedium (particularly compared with watching a modern Hollywood production, and particularly watching TV) - I like exploring and finding new and strange areas of the world.

> I already work too much.

That’s your problem. Repetition, mindlessness, boredom, flow are different facets of the same phenomenon. When your ancestors needed to build a shelter, they spent hours and hours chopping, hewing, digging, etc etc. Birds have nests, bees have hives, beavers have dams; the list goes on and on. It’s perfectly normal to find some amount of busywork soothing.

You hit your cap at work; others don’t. There are also those with real addictions where it inhibits their ability to accomplish other goals, but that’s true of tons of habits that scratch the same itch.

Not to mention, many jobs actively encourage this busywork grind, giving out more money for more grinding. So you get trained to chase the rabbit, but then you lose your job or something happens that makes it harder for you to get employed and you are left satisfying these ingrained habits any way you can, just so you don't go nuts. Video games can fill that need for grinding and give a feeling of virtual progress, but they aren't necessarily the source for that drive in humans. I blame school and work for training us to be this way, like a Skinner box. I don't blame young men for getting hooked on video games, even though it can become an unhealthy coping mechanism.

I kinda agree with you. as I get older, more games feel like repetitive work than fun. I think I finish some games more because I want to feel like I got my money's worth than because I actually enjoyed them.

still, some multiplayer games get me absolutely hooked for a while. a well-designed multiplayer game can be a never-ending stream of novel situations. open-ended puzzle games like factorio are always fun (for me) with a couple good friends. for some reason it never feels like work, even though it's fairly close to what I just did from 9-5.

I think since most online games have chat rooms or other such social aspects, and also the game is there to provide an inherent icebreaker activity when speaking with others, online games tended replaced older hangout-style social activities for some people.

The game being work, but not hard work, provides a number of things beneficial to easy social interaction: a reason to be there, typically an easy way to add value (within the game) and therefore have a reason to approach groups you aren't a member of and potentially join or meet, and an overall good background for chat/conversation without necessarily coming off as desperate or creepy.

Work and games are the same activities. The only difference is whether someone cares about the end result, and hence will complain if you don't do it properly, take your time or go explore different areas.

Having a casual conversation is fun. Being forced to have casual conversations with people all that long is work. And so on etc.

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