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Comment by slg | Hacker News Reader

Bad timing to be releasing a book about the Astros cheating scandal and claiming it "nearly ruined baseball" as MLB is currently embroiled in an even bigger cheating scandal. This was published a week ago by Sports Illustrated[1]: "This Should Be the Biggest Scandal in Sports". But baseball has survived everything from a World Series being throw to the steroids scandals of the 90s. It will survive these scandals too.

[1] - https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-st...

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> MLB is currently embroiled in an even bigger cheating scandal

"bigger", depending on definition used, is definitely subjective here and many would consider the Astros' scandal to be bigger.

I don't know what definition you would need to use for the Astros scandal to be "bigger". This one involves more players, more teams (including the Astros as an early adopter of this type of cheating), has been going on for longer, and seemingly has had a larger impact on on-field results. It is still early, but the initial numbers suggest that at least 1/3 and potentially 2/3 of pitchers were using these substances[1]. Batting averages have already jumped from .231 to .245[2] since MLB has threatened punishments.

[1] - https://twitter.com/Travis_Sawchik/status/140406216185342361...

[2] - https://twitter.com/Travis_Sawchik/status/140406534464229785...

"bigger" as in having a massive outsized advantage compared to their opponents that contributed to a championship. The reason individuals, but not so much teams, are vilified for the steroid era is that it was relatively widespread. There are a lot of wrongs in baseball, some explicitly illegal some not, but ones that cause extreme disparity perpetrated at the organization level (the level championships are won at) cause the most outrage for the size of their unfair effects, be it Black Sox or Astros.

"The sticky stuff helps increase spin on pitches, which in turn increases their movement"

uh, no. That's not how pitch movement works. How did SI let a writer who knows so little about pitching write this garbage?

I can’t recall the last time (prior to rules enforcement) I’ve seen a pitcher not grab their hat, glove, or belt before each pitch helped by spin in order to use some form of adhesive. Actual data would be helpful but the impression I get is that literally every team did it and allowed the opponent to do it in exchange.

How do you think pitch movement works? I'm no physicist, but everything I have heard states that spin (or a lack thereof) is the primary driver of pitch movement.

The key is "lack thereof". See for example knuckle ball.

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you know what you are talking about here. The benefit a knuckleball gets from its lack of spin is unpredictability in its movement and not movement itself. Outside of the knuckleball, breaking pitches (i.e. pitches with the most movement) generally spin more than non-breaking pitches. For proof you can just take a look at the spin rate leaderboard[1]. Look how far you have to scroll down the list before you start seeing fastballs.

[1] - https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=FF%7CFT%...

This accurately describes the magnus effect which powers the majority of the movement that a pitch has.

Movement refers to the "horizontal break and vertical drop" of a pitch against the average.[0] If a pitch has more break and more drop then it has more movement. A pitcher can increase these by increasing the spin rate[1]. That's why spin rate is all the rage these days among sabermetric geeks.

[0] https://www.mlb.com/glossary/statcast/pitch-movement

[1] https://www.mlb.com/news/how-spin-rate-affects-curveball-out...

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