Comment by xur17 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by xur17 | Hacker News Reader

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Venmo isn't instant in the same way that USDC is though. When a USDC transaction settles, I know the money is mine, when a venmo transfer settles, or an ach transfer settles, there is an opportunity for the money to be clawed back for quite a bit of time [0]. We can argue if this is a good or a bad feature, but it does mean that the transfer really isn't instant as I don't have guarantees behind the money being mine.

Wire transfers are a bit better in this regard (my understanding is that "clawbacks" are quite difficult / impossible), but they tend to be expensive for consumers, and take a few hours domestically, days internationally. My employer regularly has to deal with overseas wire transfers, we would hands down use USDC instead if it were an option.

To me the fundamental difference between crypto and legacy finance is that my crypto is mine. I can move it when and how I want. With legacy finance, I am effectively asking a custodian to move the funds for me, and I'm tied to whatever antiquated system they use.

[0] https://twitter.com/bweidlich/status/1403084816665354241

Venmo is instant.

Clawbacks are an entirely different matter.

And while yes, the absence of clawbacks means your money is then "yours", it also means that if you're hacked or defrauded, there's no way to recover funds because it's now "theirs".

For people who aren't engaged in illegal activity, the ability for banks and courts to retrieve illegally (or even accidentally) transferred funds is widely seen as a feature. Most people prefer the legal system to be able to ultimately determine who owns money (or real estate or shares of a company), instead of something anonymous and irreversible. After all, enforcement of property and contracts is the main reason government even exists, if you're a libertarian -- which means restoring property in case of theft and fraud and breach. (If you're a regular liberal or conservative, then it's one of the main reasons.) Are you suggesting it's beneficial for cryptocurrencies to be outside the realm of property rights and the legal system?

Your concerns about your funds being "yours" are really only worth worrying about if you live in a failed/anarchic/warlord/etc state... which fortunately isn't the case for most HN'ers, or most people generally.

Venmo isn't instant. Send yourself more than 15k. If that goes through, try to send it back.

Sure, the row in the database is instant though.

I agree it is a feature for a bank to be able to undo mistakes. The problem happens when a bank commits the mistakes and refuses to acknowledge it.

This is akin to all of us submitting to google and gmail, its great unless our account gets flagged by an algorithm by mistake. No mistake, i would be screwed.

It's exactly as instant as Strike.

Further, both will be totally instant vis-a-vis your actual bank account in a few years as RTP rolls out. No crypto needed. [1] I'm led to believe the delays in implementation were ensuring small community banks had a risk model.

> This is akin to all of us submitting to google and gmail, its great unless our account gets flagged by an algorithm by mistake. No mistake, i would be screwed.

Have you met typos?

[1] https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/rtp

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