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Comment by LatteLazy | Hacker News Reader

Fyi, the founders of GB news are both Americans. Its an American import. I am sure there is a market for it sadly. But don't lump that bs on us English please :)

Linkedin:

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mark-schneider-12b4927 (moved over to run it)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewjamescole (still in the States).

I think its important to recognise that all these groups, from GB news to the brexit campaign are NOT ground swells of public opinion. They're moneied interests, often foreign, using cash to change politics and bypass democracy...

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>>brexit campaign are NOT ground swells of public opinion

There was a referendum recently that proved you wrong. Perhaps reflecting on why the EU was so unpopular would be more productive than blaming fictional foreign interests and low information voters.

As it happened, the foreign interest were properly documented in the parliamentary "The Russia Report" of 2020 (and not only). I don't think we can ignore any of this in good faith.

The response to that report said that "We have seen no evidence of successful interference in the EU Referendum."

yet Boris is selling seats in the House of Lords to Russians and they tried to stop the release of the report. So to assume they didnt have a hand in editing the findings is perhaps putting too much faith in the UK government. And right now, any, is too much.

let's not humour that guy by using his stage name

Actually, it makes my point: the whole Leave campaign was foreign funded, filled with lies and controlled by rich right wing interests. And it worked.

Decades of fake news about the bendiness of bananas, pushed by loss making media made enormous numbers of people honestly believe the EU wanted to eat their babies...

>> the whole Leave campaign was foreign funded, filled with lies and controlled by rich right wing interests

And yet it had the whole mechanism of a right wing government working against it.

So to summarise your position:

Vote goes your way: This is the authentic will of the people

Vote doesn't go your way: Obviously this was caused by big business and foreign interests.

>And yet it had the whole mechanism of a right wing government working against it.

No it didn't. The only reason the vote was called was because the majority of that government demanded it. The current Conservative PM campaigned for it. There are a long list of senior tory party members who pushed it, dozens of former ministers etc.

>So to summarise your position

Please don't strawman my position for me.

Fyi, I have no problem admitting Bojo won fair and square despite thinking he's a disgrace.

>>No it didn't. The only reason the vote was called was because the majority of that government demanded it. The current Conservative PM campaigned for it. There are a long list of senior tory party members who pushed it, dozens of former ministers etc.

And yet the Conservative Prime Minister at the time campaigned against it, and even got the UK Government to send out a leaflet to every household in the UK advising to vote remain: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Everyone on the right (includong the PM) was free to campaign and vote as they liked. Some were Remain, many leave. Both sides were equally funded by the state.

I'm not sure how that equates to "the whole mechanism of a right wing government working against it".

If that were the case why call the vote? Why fund leave at all? Why not make some effort to dispel the fake news and foreign interference?

The weird need to pretend this was an underdog/rebel/persecuted minority? The same happened with trump supporters. What's the deal here?

>> Both sides were equally funded by the state.

That's obviously untrue, unless you think the UK Government sent out a leaflet recommending Leave as well as Remain?

>> The weird need to pretend this was an underdog/rebel/persecuted minority

I wouldn't say persecuted and obviously as it turned out a majority as they won the referendum, but they can certainly be classed as the underdog when you have the government of the day, the BBC, big business, the Bank of England all against Leave.

Actually you're wrong again I'm afraid. Leave did have their leaflet mailed out.

Conformation the state was paying for the Leave leaflet:

https://fullfact.org/europe/whos-getting-taxpayers-money-eu-.... (£7m in postage alone!)

In all your comments you have been confidently wrong. Maybe take a few minutes and go back to the facts?

And again you've made the disproven claim that the government were against brexit. Only now the BBC, big business, BoE and Big foot were all also against you?

I don't get this. The more facts contradict your claim, the more you double down.

So what's really going on here? Is brexit really just a giant troll brigade? Because it clearly isn't about reality...

>> Conformation the state was paying for the Leave leaflet:

>> https://fullfact.org/europe/whos-getting-taxpayers-money-eu-.... (£7m in postage alone!)

The page you linked to actually contradicts what you said. Both campaigns got £7m, but the government spent an additional £9m on it's own pro-remain leaflet titled "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK."

From the webpage you showed: "The government is spending an estimated £9 million sending pro-Remain leaflets to all UK households. This is on top of what the official campaign groups on either side of the debate will get in public money, which includes a free mailout."

£7m+£9m is more than £7m.

>> And again you've made the disproven claim that the government were against brexit.

Quoting from the leaflet PUBLISHED BY THE GOVERNMENT:

"The Government believes the UK should remain in the EU. This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the Government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK."

>> I don't get this. The more facts contradict your claim, the more you double down.

See above for actual facts.

You are completely wrong, to the extent of sounding like you're living in a parallel universe. The UK government was so strongly against Brexit at the time that not only was it formally and officially committed to the campaign to remain but the moment it became clear the government had lost, the Prime Minister and Chancellor both resigned. This is all a matter of incredibly well documented public record.

> No it didn't. The only reason the vote was called was because the majority of that government demanded it. The current Conservative PM campaigned for it. There are a long list of senior tory party members who pushed it, dozens of former ministers etc.

I just wanted to butt in about this point. The Lib Dems at the time also wanted a referendum on EU membership if they won, the theory being that if the Lib Dems won, it would signal that a referendum would pass remain very easily and would give a strong mandate to the pro-Europe types for further integration.

Over the last 60 years the Tories and Labour have had a wide range of views on Europe, and with euroscepticism and europhilism and euroantipathy present in both of them in meaningful measures. Certainly some of the tories in government at the time were eurosceptics and wanted the vote because voting out was the eurosceptic wet dream(which came to pass). I don't know David Cameron personally but my impression of him is that on balance he was probably closer to Nick Clegg on Europe than Bojo, else he wouldn't have left so immediately after the vote. I think like Democrats who were rooting for Trump to be the Republican nominee, he was blissfully overconfident in the result and asked a question he really didn't want the actual answer to.

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