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Comment by NickNameNick | Hacker News Reader

Why does the air move faster on the upper side of the wing?

It's not because there's a magic force that requires air particles parted be the leading edge to rejoin thier partner at the trailing edge.

The air particles on the upper surface reach the trailing edge much sooner than the ones under the wing.

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Because the pressure on the top is lower :) (this is half-serious: the whole problem with these explanations is that cause and effect for all of these variables is not straightforward: you can see from the navier-stokes equations they are all dependent on each other).

Kind of. Actually the real ‘cause’ in my understanding is 1) the curved geometry of the suction (upper) side of the aerofoil and 2) the fact that the flow remains attached to it. Everything else - you can actually approximate the curved surface to a circle and apply equations of circular motion to a parcel of air to satisfy yourself with why the flow is accelerating. And Newton’s 3rd law explains how lift is generated on the wing. In my view there’s no need to use Navier-Stokes to explain how an aerofoil works, if you simplify the geometry to make a special case.

Most of the lift comes from the suction side.

Actually, if you really want to test an explanation, try to apply the same reasoning to explain how a sailing boat can sail upwind (or at least up to about 45 degrees off).

The devil is in that last detail. "Flow stays attached" is a description of the properties of the flow, not an explanation for what causes attached flow or why attached flow matters. It's semicircular reasoning to say that the plane gets lift because the flow stays attached... Attached flow and lift are correlated, but they may be two phenomena caused by the same underlying property.

My Newton's-laws-only bullshit:

bottom air:

"bounces" down, simple enough. Force on wing up and back.

top air:

bounces up off front of wing (because it's not infinitely thin), but then is unimpeded by wing. It get's slightly more compressed at the very front, but then as the wing goes down this big gap is left. The air isn't going to bounce on the air above significantly because air compressed and this is laminar flow to boot: Viscosity > internia-ness.

The about-to-be-vacuum means the bottom air pushes the wing up more easily, usually to the point where there is no more vacuum, just low pressure. But if you go really fast (or are a hydrofoil?) then there might be an actual vacuum.

The vacuum "initially" just accelerates the air vertically, but once things get going since the airfoil "carves out a triangle", the air might speed up horizontally too. There is air behind it (front re aircraft heading) pushing on it but not air in front which is getting "untraffic jammed" away.

There we go, I think this accounts for everything in the article without any Bernoulli. Screw Bernoulli.

You might get something out of this 2013 talk by former Boeing engineer Doug McLean on misconceptions about lift. [0]

[0] https://youtu.be/QKCK4lJLQHU?t=834 (watch for 5 minutes to get some idea of his main points, or 35 minutes to watch in full. The link will skip the introduction.)

My understanding is that the air moving over the top of the wing is compressed against the air above it in the atmosphere, like a venturi. This may be extremely simplified but it's what we were taught in flight school.

Does not move faster either. Otherwise, a flat wing would not work, and they do.

Gravity or force creates the pressure differential. Wing pushes on air below it. (Why birds fly.) Additionally, for moving wing, edges create vortices that create local pressure differentials. (Why helicopters and planes and birds work better than floating pieces of paper.)

Wings work very similarly to performance ship hulls in this regard.

For anyone who’s ever tried building a robotic bird, there is a lot more intricacy to how birds fly than just “pushing air”. A better article might have been, ‘we still don’t understand how certain species of bird fly so efficiently’

Surely it does move faster, because it's lower pressure/you're putting less resistance on it?

If I have a wing shaped like ∖, air going in -> direction, which is what you need to generate lift with a flat wing, then the air on the bottom is running into the wing and slowing down, while the air on the top is being pulled into the region the wing swept clear of particles and speeding up.

It does move faster. This can be readily observed in wind tunnel tests, and is a source of many issues once you get into transonic flight when the airflow can reach supersonic speeds while the plane in subsonic. Flat wings must be inclined to cause the air on the top side to move faster. The vortices cause air to move at different rates.

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