Comment by api | Hacker News Reader

Comment by api | Hacker News Reader

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There's no difference between this and synthesizer music which sounded shockingly alien when it first came out. My uncle tells me about people going to Pink Floyd or Tangerine Dream concerts and it was virtually a religious experience to hear music so utterly otherworldly. Techno music had similar effects when it first hit the scene with pioneers like Kraftwerk or the Detroit and Chicago Techno artists.

It also came with the criticism/fear that "machines are replacing people as musicians" which was bullshit. We just got a new set of musical instruments based on electronics that musicians could play and that led to an explosion of new musical genres.

Photography was initially derided as "not art" or "machines replacing human artists" too. It was neither. It was just a new way to make pictures that spawned new art forms.

This is just another new set of artistic tools. It will spawn new art forms with their own rules and sense of technique, aesthetics, and style.

It's art if the artist is art-ing.

>Photography was initially derided as "not art" or "machines replacing human artists" too. It was neither. It was just a new way to make pictures that spawned new art forms.

This is one thing about progress and art, that I have found really interesting.

Like, how the invention of photography completely changed painting.

Ultra-realism became uninteresting over night, as soon as it was possible to create perfect depictions via cameras.

Painting, as an art form, didn't "die". Painters weren't replaced by machines.

Instead, artist's interpretation became more important, than their technical ability to reproduce reality.

We've since seen impressionism, expressionism, and more abstract movements like cubism.

The invention of photography ended up being a gift to art.

And now we see artists embracing digital artworks as their medium of expression.

So, I guess the fear of AI and machine learning being the end of art as we know it, might very well be unfounded.

It looks to me, more as the possible birthplace of new modes of expression. A reason for artists to rethink their art.

I think at the moment there is an important difference that the OP is talking about, namely the ability of the artist to channel their intention into the work. I think even early synthesizers offered a degree of control which even if the results were other-worldly were still channeling the artist’s intention. At the risk of wading into the murky waters of defining “what is art,” I don’t really feel like feeding an ML model a short sequence of words is “art-ing.”

However I think you’re right that in the long run these types of technology will become another tool in the artist’s toolbox and are not in danger of replacing artists. But I also think the OP’s criticism is valid. I suppose you could argue this is a bit like early criticism of photography as “not art” and that feeding the model is like picking what to photograph and how to frame it and such, but I still feel like there is a key difference in terms of the ability to have an intention and to have some ability to foresee how that intention will be realized in the work. Feeding a model inputs and guess-and-checking the results until you get something cool does feel “less artistic” to me.

Intention would be done linguistically then. What happens if you write poetry into this thing? Prose? Song lyrics? Stream of consciousness?

Here's an idea: freestyle rap MC with the output of the text fed into this projected on a screen.

Wait until the ghost hunters get hold of this shit. That'll be fun.

I think it would be one thing if these tools worked such that with experience you gained a kind of intuitive understanding of how your inputs map to the outputs and a finesse in crafting that poetry for the machine. But based on my (limited) understanding on ML models I have a hard time imagining that is the case. These models are complete black boxes, where a small perturbation of the input can create large, unpredictable variations in output. That makes me think that there is a strong “guess and check” aspect to these creations. And I think tools with that characteristic are limited and frustrating to create with, because you cannot channel your intention effectively through that unpredictable mapping of input to output. But I have no doubt these tools will continue to evolve in the direction of being able to be wielded more intentionally.

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