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Comment by tharkun__ | Hacker News Reader

They wouldn't deny that _a_ person is alive.

They need more to establish the fact that this is actually the person they claim to be.

This is way different for the bank teller that's known her for 30 years. They know who's standing in front of them (presumably).

Way different for someone that's never met this person. The bar is higher. These guys would would want more than just the one bank teller to affidavit that this actually is the person that all records show is actually deceased.

Depending on country and their bureaucracy (she does seem to be in France, so ...) this could be quite hard.

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It doesn't seem like it should be that hard. We do it routinely. My kids have passports, and what did they have to prove they were alive and who I claimed them to be? Their birth certificate, and a sworn statement by me.

It should be fairly simple to get an equivalent. A sworn statement by her husband, perhaps. Her mother, if still alive. Or heck, by now there might be biological records that can be matched up (e.g. dental).

This should be a fairly easy procedural fix.

Well, consider: someone who is documented as dead appears with a birth certificate. Do you a) assume that this person is the (presumably) deceased person, or b) assume that a living person is trying to steal a deceased person's identity?

The problem is that we're really poorly equipped to handle problems of identity. It's hard to prove that you are you, absent documentation. Documentation usually issued by a government, or by a private agency on behalf of a government. And if that government thinks you're dead, well, all that documentation is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on.

Short of, say, a dental, medical or DNA match, then yeah, this is a really hard procedural fix.

EU countries have real ID with biometrics though...

I believe biometrics were required only recently.

It's been a requirement longer than the three years this woman has been officually dead. Of course, perhaps she didn't have a passport before

From the article, she found out she was dead when she tried to get a passport.

Yes. EU passports are valid for 5 years AFAIK. The article doesn't say whether she previously held a passport or not.

Yep exactly. That's why I mentioned the country :)

As the in-between poster mentioned, he routinely does it with his kids. I presume he's in a country where this is easier then. That's why I mentioned France vs. being somewhere else.

Here in Canada I could believe for example that this might be easier (though I have nothing but conjecture). I say that because I do know that getting your papers for the very first time "all" you need is for two persons that are already Canadian citizens to affidavit that they've known you for at least 2 years (IIRC) and that they think you are who you claim you are. On top of like your birth certificate. But thats not necessarily Canadian and not sure how much that can or will be checked.

I know from some colleague who is Vietnamese, born somewhere in China while fleeing, who had no birth certificate and doesn't know his actual birth day (just roughly the year), never mind where he was born exactly. When he wanted to do something that required a birth certificate a Chinese co-worker offered to "talk to a guy" and "get him a birth certificate".

I presume France lies on the other end of the spectrum :)

The thing is, it's one thing to have a hard procedure to correct an erroneously issued "death": "You need evidence A, B, and C". This might be hard, but okay, fair enough.

But in this case, it seems there is no procedure at all. She is never asked for evidence A, B, and C. She's essentially asking "this is an error, what can I do to fix it?" and the answer is essentially "nothing."

> Well, consider: someone who is documented as dead appears with a birth certificate. Do you a) assume that this person is the (presumably) deceased person, or b) assume that a living person is trying to steal a deceased person's identity?

The fact that they're dead hardly seems relevant. Right now today you can give my birth state $20 and pinky promise that you're me, and they'll mail my birth certificate to any shady shell company you choose. You can bootstrap that document into the rest of my identity. If that's the standard of evidence for impersonating living people I don't know why we'd go through so many hoops to make impersonating dead people hard.

In cases where the living person exists they can chime up (at least in the typical cases) that someone is stealing there identity. In the dead person case, the dead person cant testify on their own behalf.

The idea that if I feel like it I can just go walk up to a court and claim to be a dead person and they just have to accept it if I get someone to vouch for me is silly.

Sure it's easy, I'll give you that. The identity thieves would have a heyday cleaning out estates and running up credit until someone made it difficult again to assume someone else's identity.

Please don't be disingenuous. I suggested we could do it the same way we do it now. It's a chain-of-trust issue, and not just anyone would be able to vouch for you.

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