Comment by geomark | Hacker News Reader

Comment by geomark | Hacker News Reader

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I saw and touched the sub; it was featured at a science expo in Bangkok not long after the rescue. It was a metal tube with some plexiglass plates on it with air valves mounted in them. I'm sure there was some engineering involved, but didn't seem at all impressive.

My son was a big fan of Elon, the "cool rocket guy". But after his comments about Unsworth he asked me "Why did Elon say that stuff about the man who is a hero?" My son is a Thai boy living in Thailand, close the the same age as the boys who were rescued. Sadly I had to walk back the idea that Elon was a good role model.

I thought Unsworth should have sued Elon in Thailand. It wouldn't have meant much since Elon would never travel here again. But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. Again, wouldn't mean much unless Elon forgot about it and ended up traveling to or through a country that would arrest him on behalf of Thailand.

"impressive" is not a relevant criterion for prototypes

> But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant.

While Thailand is certainly within their rights to run their justice system how they want:

1) The punishment doesn't in any way fit the crime.

2) "He's such a hero" is a terrible reason to do something. Focusing on who the person being wronged was is a bad path to justice - it is better to focus on what the perpetrator did.

So I hope the courts in Thailand would have found in Musk's favour.

How do you know the punishment doesn't fit the crime when the case is a thought experiment at most? Or are you saying that because it would be a criminal case it is too much no matter what? It makes no sense to me that it is too much just because it isn't US style justice. Criminal doesn't mean prison time. It's not like the US justice system is much better (clearly not working at all in this case). Compared to those countries justice systems the US should be compared to it's broken, corrupt and unfair (to the extreme for minorities).

The comment was hoping that Elon would have an arrest warrant out on him, of the belief that he would never enter Thailand and was pointing out that the maximum penalty was imprisonment. There is an element of crazy - nobody should be facing arrest for saying nasty things. Maybe a fine, after a difficult court case.

Leaving aside that Thailand's defamation laws are largely a club to stop people criticising the government and not really intended for use against people like Musk.

More than "a club to stop people criticising the government", it's used extensively by the rich and powerful to stop anyone from criticising them.

Another funny thing about it is that the truth is not a defense. So even if Unsworth was a pedo and Musk could prove it, that would not be a defense against a defamation case. All that is needed is to show that the person making the defamatory remark intended to cause the victim to lose face.

So now you can update your son based on another comment we know that Elon was lied to by a private investigator - and seems safe to assume his comments based on that faulty/made up information; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27796249

Elon is a good role model, he's not perfect though. I'm not sure why so many people blindly put him on a pedestal assuming he should be superhuman - especially at the abnormal level of pressures and responsibility he has.

That's a good idea. A demonstration of that old phrase "birds of a feather flock together." Musk employs a sleazebag to do Unsworth dirty, gets done dirty himself. Or maybe karma is a better word for it.

I don't know about that putting on a pedestal thing. Musk is a brilliant guy, but has demonstrated that he has a pretty rotten character. IMO, a good role model for a kid really needs to have good quality of character above all else.

To me hiring an investigator to find dirt on a guy who bruised your ego by pointing out correctly that the sub sucks, is already crossing a lot of lines for me.

It wasn't just bruised ego, the guy brought legal charges against Musk claiming libel.

How is hiring a 3rd party to investigate the underlying libel not a good initial response? Especially if he could easily afford it.

He had already called him pedo guy amongst other things at that point (i.e., the libel in question in the first place). So it couldn’t have come from the investigation that came later about the libel. The timeline just doesn’t make sense.

A scam billionaire that did nothing by himself is anything but a role model.

Has anyone done anything by themself? Weak argument.

Tesla bought Solar city to bail out around $6 billion in assets owned by the Musk family. He came up with an overhyped product launch (the solar roof) to instill confidence while behind the scenes he gutted Solar city (renamed to Tesla Energy) to nothing. I don't want him to be a role model for anyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QqtSqy3oeY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f0PzbJOau8

Not to mention credit deals between SpaceX and Tesla as well. Also his habit of promissing outlandish stuff (self driving taxis for example) to keep money flowing and evaluations high. And then manipulating the unregulated Bitcoin market, trying that with stock traded on wall street would get you in hot water with the SEC. Something Elon has already experience with. Good cororate governance is something else.

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