Hacker News Reader

Comment by cjensen | Hacker News Reader

Sure, we could fix the flaws in every accessible software on the planet. Or we could outlaw non-traceable payment methods like Bitcoins so that there is no profit in ransomware. What are they going to do? Ask for payment of a million dollars in iTunes gift cards?

View on HN

That solves ransomware, which is bottom of the barrel in the hacker world. The reason talk about this is so much about _defense_ lately is because if people as untalented as ransomware operators can make it into US corporate and government infrastructure, imagine how deep in state-employed hackers must be. In the past decade US government infrastructure has been deeply penetrated multiple times, with catastrophic consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...

https://www.wired.com/story/the-full-story-of-the-stunning-r...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_federal_gov...

Bitcoin is quite traceable; but I take your point. To flesh out your position, are there any circumstances in which you believe two parties should be able to transact securely and privately?

It's trivial to make Bitcoin untraceable. See tumblers.

I think people also have this strange idea that the bitcoin ledger must represent all bitcoin transactions. But think for a minute that I can just email you a wallet and the coins just changed hands without putting anything on the ledger.

> But think for a minute that I can just email you a wallet and the coins just changed hands without putting anything on the ledger.

I won't trust that you destroyed your own copies of the keys, so I'll want to transfer the coins to another wallet first thing with a real transaction recorded on the ledger. Otherwise I'm risking that at any time you could take the coins back from me.

Doesn't matter much if it is traceable, as long as it can be converted into actual money. And it can, thanks to dodgy exchanges turning a blind eye or being actively complicit.

Couldn't they still demand ransom in BTC? I assume if BTC is largely banned in the US, it will still exist. Exchanges will still exist (in some countries) and it'll still be traded.

Couldn't attackers still say, "Go get some BTC and deposit it. Where do you get some? Not our problem."

Maybe there's something I'm missing.

Good question! So this is like US companies paying bribes. The employee handbook for my first job said that bribes could be paid in other countries if they are usual and customary. Bribes over a certain sum required executive authorization.

The US has now made paying bribes in other countries into US felonies. So now US companies do not pay bribes if they are sane.

So sure, an attacker could say "Go get some BTC and deposit it. Where do you get some? Not our problem." But then the executive in charge would have to choose between (1) committing a felony with jail time attached for him or (2) possibly going out of business and finding a new job. For sensible people, that's not really a choice.

If paying bribes is already a felony, can you help me understand how "outlaw non-traceable payment methods like Bitcoins" would help?

Seems like you sweep up a lot of innocent consumers who just want to use bitcoin, and if paying bribes is already illegal I'm not sure what additional incentive this adds.

I guess my point in this post and prior was: paying the bribe is the problem, not the medium they wish to use to transact.

Bitcoin seems highly resistant to centralized control; I suspect attempts to outlaw it would be easily thwarted.

I’m sure speculators and drug buyers would go on using Bitcoin, but businesses can only be persuaded to do these ransom payments because they can buy Bitcoin legally with a normal wire transfer.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com