When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest
jamanetwork.com
jamanetwork.com
1. Co-worker, apparently healthy cauc make age 43, received Pfizer vaccine, contracted covid approx 33 days after 2d dose. Was in hospital for 3 weeks and has had various problems for several months.
2. Neighbor's kid, very fit (volleyball, track) hispanic female age 16, received Pfizer vaccine, has had joint problems, headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms since being vaccinated.
3. Myself, cranky geezer of dubious health and doubtful usefulness male age 64, received Janssen vaccine and approx 19-20 days later had mild symptoms that were originally believed to be a cold but later tested as covid positive, and still feel normal and cranky.
So from my little world, the only observed efficacy is the national and global statistics on covid spread and prevention per vaccinations. Your mileage may vary.
That’s easy to do—stay on private property. This country’s laws were written to protect those rights. With WFH, it’s more plausible than ever.
Given that and assuming we’ll have a permanently unvaccinated population, the virus would be expected to keep reinfecting that group, thereby increasing the selection pressure for strains that reinfect.
[1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...
However during the course of a natural infection, antibodies would be generated for more targets on the virus than just the spike protein, wouldn’t it? Meanwhile the vaccine exclusively produces spike protein antibodies. This study doesn’t make any statements about how much effect those additional antibodies would have against variants.
> Therefore, antibody immunity acquired by natural infection or different modes of vaccination may have a differing susceptibility to erosion by SARS-CoV-2 evolution.
They seem to be saying their tests showed that the vaccine antibodies better handled the receptor mutations they created (how much better? 100%? or 1%?), but that antibodies from a natural infection target other parts of the virus besides just the receptor (possibly offering broader protection).
> The neutralizing activity of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more targeted to the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein compared to antibodies elicited by natural infection. However, within the RBD, binding of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more broadly distributed across epitopes compared to infection-elicited antibodies.
They use the same vector for infection which so the immunities offer protection against. The protection mechanism is a game of catch up though.
Herd immunity is when enough people have individual immunity that when those without immunity get infected so many of those around them are immune that the outbreak quickly dies out on its own.
Even if individual immunity is the same for variants A and B of some virus, if variant B spreads more easily than variant A then you will have to have a higher percentage of the population with individual immunity in order to have herd immunity.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
Because then the show has to stop. It's pretty dark if you think about it long enough.
At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Motorist_Law.) This keeps everyone happy, and somewhat equitably constrains the harm. (It leaves those who can’t get vaccinated SOL.)
Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.
And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic.
Add lots of misinfo from Facebook to that mess, and you have people who can't always be blamed for their fear.
still remains true and you didn’t present a counterpoint to that
both a) and b) have to be satisfied for me to care enough to dissect the similarities and offer an opinion
I’ve come to understand your example is a topic a lot of people care passionately about though. That’s interesting.
This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.)
Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York again because those who refuse to get vaccinated will die? Would there be the political will to?
They shouldn’t. But there is daylight between the government having done something unfavourable to a group you identify with and it having abused the specific thing you’re being asked to do (saying you’re being vaccinated while administering a disease).
I agree the precedent exists for all Americans. That’s scary. But “the government has done bad things” isn’t a valid excuse for ignoring the other evidence. (I don’t give Black Americans a free pass on non-vaccination. I just sympathise with the hesitance.)
But you could say the same about most things that most people do every day.
Nobody needs to become an amateur biologist.
But everyone needs to have the self awareness to step back and realize that vaccines are one of a hundred things they do that they don't have the expertise to build or explain, and that the only reason they're hesitant about this one is because they've been drawn into a culture war about it.
Whereas the rest of life that's equally unfathomable, we do it without controversy because nobody's found the value in making us pawns over it.
Come on.
In this case, too, anti-vaxxerism is due to a lack of education.
Whatever we do, we need to improve education, or we're going to continue paying for the consequences of not having enough of it.
Not saying that the sentiment wasn’t genuine, but damn that is some poor optics considering the history.
I sympathize with that statement, and maybe this is just semantics, but did we ask Black people to receive the vaccine first?
Everybody has equal access.
There's been a lot of stories and allegations about vaccination programs in Pakistan in the 21st century, in relation to attempts to find Osama Bin Laden. That they were fake, and/or covertly collecting DNA for the CIA.
Is this a valid reason for all Americans to be suspicious of vaccines or at least not to blame them?
Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens.
Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to continue being fine.
Please reference below:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606061/
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...
https://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/products/obesity-resear...
“The evidence base is limited in quantity and quality and insufficient to provide clear guidance“ [1].
The entire paper is about the “major evidence gaps.”
I have read many scientific, peer-reviewed papers on this subject. There is too much 'insufficient' data and too much correlation/causation issues. I am a hardware engineer, so am driven, delimited, and succeed or fail on the veracity of my data. I can generally depend on good data provided by suppliers and its efficacy because it is based on Physics. I have read may MS and PhD papers in botany and cellular biology, and a few CDC/NIH/FDA papers on the OT. I will conjecture that there are too many life scientists on these research teams and not enough physical scientists and engineers.
So it seems to be, in practice, a more complicated problem than reduction of smoking, which has been rather successful in many countries.
Fixing obesity involves education (not everyone knows why McDonalds is junk, or that too much of anything can be bad, meaning portion control), skills training/learning (cooking healthy food can be a big leap for someone who only microwaves a frozen meal), local environment (there are places with poor selection of fresh vegetables), lifestyle stuff beyond food (stress from working two jobs leads to eating badly, drinking, etc), and socioeconomic changes (not everyone can afford all of the above easily). That doesn't even involve things like getting you kids on board, fitness, etc.
And with all of that in place, significant weight loss is a long term effort spamming years for some people.
Getting a vaccine involves rolling up a sleeve then sitting for a bit in case of reactions. And maybe making an appointment.
Equating the two grossly overstates how hard it can be to deal with obesity vs getting a shot.
https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politi...
I don't think that the article does enough to dismiss it. And since every older and at risk person was vaccinated you have no one to compare to
This is what happens when people check in their common sense for political allegiances. I have no doubt that if Trump had won, we would still be having this issue of the distrustful unvaccinated, but their politics would be more on the democrats side.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...
Independent review may have convinced some who were hesitant but I suspect they would have been the folks independently hesitant as opposed to the “politically hesitant”. The politically hesitant would hold out until their trusted party authorities blessed the vaccines.