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Comment by menloparkbum | Hacker News Reader

you can cut back on the calories you consume, train like a madman and still get fatter.

Could you post a link or reference for one example of someone who cut calories and "trained like a madman" and still got fatter?

There's a lot of debate about hormones, metabolism, calorie quality and optimum exercise. However it has still proven difficult to break basic laws of physics.

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There's no breaking of the laws of physics involved here. Firstly you are still losing mass in this scenerio - but it is muscle tissue, not fat. Secondly, lower resting metabolic rate manifests itself in forms such as lower body temperature, or general lethargy, so you are burning fewer calories just for maintenance. Your body is a survival machine. If it thinks you are under threat of starvation, it will prioritize fat storage and energy conservation. It will even cut back on your immune system to do so if it thinks starvation is the most immediate threat.

Google for "overtraining" or read the articles on t-nation.com or musclebulletin.com.

I read the first article listed on t-nation.com and it starts up with this poignant observation about olympic swimmers:

"I'm sorry but these dudes look like AIDS patients. Would it kill you to at least get a tan and not remind the world of the Holocaust? And could you butch up the sport a little bit? Because deep down I know the male divers I just saw are in shower right now, naked, loofahing each other's taut athletic bodies... ."

With a bit of literary magic, over the course of 2 pages, we go from the Olympics to colorful commentary about Japan:

"You gotta wonder about the Japanese some times. These are the guys who invented vending machines that distribute soiled panties that you can take home and either use as Dennis Hopper ether masks or make soup with them. And they're the ones who invented underwear that you can wear six days straight by rotating them 120 degrees each day for three days and then turning them inside out and then repeating the underwear carousel thing for another three days. And then there's the bukkake thing, which is kinda disturbing even for a preternaturally open-minded guy like me."

So... I guess thanks for the exercise tips and the obviously credible reference but I think I'll stick with training like a madman and not eating as much.

Well, you've gotta figure out what works for you. This works for me (30% to 20% bodyfat in 6 months and 25% improvement in deadlift and bench press). I'm eating more than I did and exercising less - in terms of time, anyway. Whatever you decide, good luck :-)

Do train like a madman, but not for more than an hour at a time. There are diminishing returns and, sometimes, losses. Weight training is definitely superior to cardio, but you need both.

If you are specifically trying to lose weight, limiting calories is key, but you must eat plenty before and after these madman workouts and then don't eat as much on non-workout days. Just be sure to eat healthy stuff with a good ratio of macro nutrients. If you don't, the training will be more difficult and less effective.

Luckily, your body should be pretty good at telling you when it's hungry. Don't fight it (much). Diet and exercise info is all over the map, but the basics I have mentioned here are more or less undisputed.

Whenever I read t-nation, I'm struck by how self-conscious some of them are about being big. I see little regard for the fact that some sports don't require athletes to have enormous amounts of muscle mass.

It's the same on any site tho'. If you read crossfit.com you'd be struck by how smug they are about being smarter than everyone else about training.

And, say, at technology sites about their methods. (Irony intended.)

I have seen the elitism at Crossfit, but I read the t-nation forums for a few months. They were much more negative than, say, Crossfit.

I rarely look at the forums actually. There is some great content on t-nation once you know what to look for. Their Physique Clinic stuff is brilliant, for example.

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