Ask HN: My friend made it big. How to handle? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: My friend made it big. How to handle?

143 pointsthrowaway_poor227 comments

I knew that my friend's startup was doing well, but I didn't know it was doing that well. I just found out that his net worth is several hundred million $. I don't know how to handle it... I am very happy for him but since hearing about it I feel like I've been wasting my time in my job. How do you deal with this?

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Hahahaha I faced this exact problem as well, very good friend of mine since high school, one of the blockbuster ipos last year. Guys a billionaire

Not sure if my advice will change anything or even help but this is sort of how I handled it

1. Recognize that it's only natural to feel that way. It's not that your not happy for him and want him to fail, but your more concerned with your own progress given where he is at life. I think that might stop you feeling like your a shit person for feeling bad

2. Your problem is you feel like your wasting your time so do something about it. If you do come to the conclusion that there's not much to be done, you'll probably feel better as well. Personally I spent a lot of time reflecting on what I was doing and quit my job for my own startup. Although it wasn't a complete failure, I'm definitely financially worse off than if I had stuck to my job, but all feelings of jealousy I previously had to my friends who struck it rich doing startups were gone, since you appreciate the opportunity cost they had to give up had they chosen to go for some high paying job like banking.

Thanks, this is good advice. I don't have envy or jealousy but I do need to decide for myself what I want to actually do. So far I was feeling good about not playing the startup game because from the sample of my friends who gave it a shot, it felt like a lot of stress for what ended up to be moderately higher rewards at best and worse ones at the median. Now I have a very different picture of what success can look like. Then again my friend is not me and I don't have the same skills or opportunities or risk tolerance that he had so maybe the conclusion will be that I don't do anything about it. We'll see. Thanks!

I'm very happy that you don't feel jealousy, but I think it's natural to feel envy for some extent, I suggest accepting that those feelings are part of being human. After accepting those feeling try to think about the things you are happy about in your life, and the actions you did in order to gain them.

The startup game probably is a lot of stress for at best moderately-better rewards 99% of the time. I don’t doubt your friend is very smart and talented, but to get that level of success you basically need luck.

That’s not to say you can’t pursue a startup. But if you do, don’t hurt your life and burn yourself out, and recognize that the chance you’ll end up like your friend is very slim.

If you’re looking for money, i imagine that there are less risky ways to end up with a decent amount, though not several hundred million. But i don’t know, you’ll have to ask someone else. Also, recognize that money ≠ happiness, though being poor basically = unhappiness.

When I was poor I did odd jobs for a friend who'd made it big and was now a millionaire. I thought he had it made, until one day I heard him complaining about a friend of his who'd made 50 million. Then I realized that in spite of his huge house, fancy cars and so on, he was still consumed with jealousy and bitterness around matters of money.

If you've got a decent roof over your head, access to good healthcare and a car that runs reasonably well, you're doing better than a huge portion of humanity.

Don't look up and wonder why you're not there, look down and wonder how you can help.

This has the added benefit of allowing you to not drive yourself crazy.

Had a similar realization when I was invited to a friend of a friend's mega yacht for a party. Ship was bigger than any house I've ever been in, had a heli pad, garage, and pool. What did the owner spend most of his time doing? Endlessly scrolling through Insta

Yeah lol nothing changes. Addicted to seeing what others are doing and how he can look like he's better or something.

Any basic-azz person is still gonna be basic even if they make a milli.

From Kurt Vonnegut's obituary-poem for Joseph Heller [0]: the two were at a party hosted by a billionaire. Vonnegut asked how he felt that the billionaire made in a day what Catch-22 earned over its entire run:

  And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.”
  And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?”
  And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.”
  Not bad! Rest in peace!

[0] https://apoemaday.tumblr.com/post/190861571089/joe-heller

This is also where philosophy can help. I would recommend reading Seneca's 'Letters from a Stoic'.

People who get stinkin' rich off startups won an extremely high-effort lottery. If they had won the same amount of money on an actual lottery ticket, would you be sitting there thinking you are wasting your life and should have put your time into buying lottery tickets?

Just live your life. If you don't like where you are, do something about that. But don't compare yourself to others. In general, it isn't helpful.

Nope. Building a startup is almost completely opposite to playing the lottery.

You missed the point.

No I didn’t.

In which case startup investors should be getting returns in the 1000s of percent per annum on their entire investment portfolios.

So the lottery is purely luck. You're saying the opposite so basically a startup is 0% luck.

What is it then?

Not necessarily. In a fadt-growing startup scene the chances are significantly higher than a lottery

Say congratulations and just go back to normal.

Multimillion dollar payouts are so rare that if you make that the goal then you will most likely fail. Chances are that your current job is a reasonable definition of success.

Yes! Most important thing is happiness balance between your job, how much you’re paid, your team and how much fun you have at work, and how you can spend your free time on what makes you happy.

For the same reason I never felt jealous about colleagues or people who won big money with Bitcoin or other magic techniques. Happy for them, but I’m happy with my choices too.

I was an early employee (#20-something) of a startup that was acquired. The founder received 1 billion, the 2 other founders received 100 million each.

I got about 80 grand that took 4 years to vest.

You have to be grateful for the opportunities and experiences you’ve acquired and be honest with yourself—-I didn’t take the risks they did and since I was pretty junior at the time, wasn’t as influential as others.

I was in almost the same situation as you. I got $800 and I'm grateful, $0 would have been okay, too.

Of course I'm also a bit jealous.

I have to admit, I find it a bit perplexing that the income differences can be that much. I mean, how can one person's idea and work be worth $1B when they can't execute on it without others, and those others that help make it happen make .01% of that. Maybe I was just raised on old values with the idea that as a leader I am just one of the people and they are who the ones making me successful and let them share in that wealth. Perhaps that's why I'll never be in such a position.

its safe to say that if you express discomfort about exploiting your employees then its unlikely that the people with the purse will put you in such a position.

It's not the idea that's worth $1B. It's the risk the founders/early employees take that make it so valuable. Possibly the founders could take a 9-to-5 job, that would pay them an above average salary. They allowed themselves to go without that steady income, job security to work 24/7 on a project that a few years later could be worth 0$ if it goes wrong. For it to make sense financially, if it is successful it has to pay big time. Probably, you have a few startup ideas yourself, but they are worthless until you put yourself into it.

I doubt those sacrifices and risks are worth $1B for a single person though.

If there is asymmetric risk and reward, then do what wall street does: exploit the shit out of it and make bank.

Oh wait, most people would rather complain about someone making a billion ("Hur dur he didn't work 1 million times harder than a factory worker Hur dur") than at least try to make your own billion.

When considering opportunity cost, it’s more time efficient, imho, to live a life well lived and buy lottery tickets than spend decades to “earn” a billion when it’s more luck than “hard work.” You can do everything right and still fail (startup failure, early employee dilution, etc). You can also fail your way to being a billionaire (Adam Neumann @ WeWork). Best to recognize the sham (most startups fail, most startup equity ends up worthless or at parity with what you would’ve earned as wages elsewhere) before you’ve spent too much precious time on it you can never buy back. Survivorship bias is rampant in the startup scene, Silicon Valley even more so.

One of my side projects is a website where you can convert startup equity offers to the number of lottery tickets you need to buy to have equal odds of financial success (while working a more stable and/or lucrative job), it’s just not done yet. I hope to share it soon!

TLDR Don’t work at a startup, get exposure to that asset class or equivalent returns via other means. You’re just making founders and investment funds wealthy with your precious time.

Your goal shouldnt be to work at at an early startup. As you mentioned it's not worth it.

Your goal is to be a founder at a startup, and for all of people's claims that startup success is entirely luck that is not true.

Luck certainly plays a role, hell being in the position to choose between being a founder vs employee of someone else startup requires incredible luck, on a global scale.

But, me and you, the privileged 0.1% of the world, are masters of our destiny. To claim otherwise is to accept mediocrity as inevitable and not the consequences of our decisions.

I’m at not so delusional as to believe in this level of exceptionalism. Strive for success, but humility is equally important.

As a 0.1%er you are already exceptionally lucky.

What's 1 more roll of the dice?

I would say that depends on the opportunity costs and how many sides those dice have.

Also, I'm curious where you got that .1% number.

Your comment exemplifies my point. I don't think people should be exploiting their employees. Frankly, if I make $1B for myself and not at least 10% as much for each of my employees, then I'm not a good leader in my own opinion.

And, oh wait, I guess some people would rather complain about people complaining rather than make their own $1B...

Who says I'm not trying to make my own billion?

I would say if you're wasting time browsing this site and engaging in conversation, then you're not really trying. That time would be spent on your company (look at other self-made billionaires).

I'll bookmark this.

See you in 10 years, and you'd better hope this comment doesn't turn into the infamous Dropbox comment.

Why would I care? Whether you make a billion or not doesn't affect me. Statistically speaking, the odds are very much in my favor.

I hope you do make it, and that you use much of it to give your employees great bonuses and give to charity.

It's not based upon what's It's worth It's based what market is willing to pay.

How much vc want to pay for fundraising, how much employees will accept to work and ultimately how much acquiring company is willing to pay

This is what most people don't understand about capitalism, it's not about fair or just it's about what markets are willing to pay for it

Founders who get VC capital to pay wages and compute costs are also taking a pay check. They're not going without.

If it's so easy why don't you start a company and ask VC to pay your salary.

It's a free country no one is stopping you from doing that

I'm not sure what you're getting at. "Just start a company and ask a VC..." Getting VC funding is the hard part. I'm not saying that it's easy. And obviously there are going to be some strings attached - VCs typically want board seats, significant input into company decision making, along with a chunk of the company. But are you telling me that it's common for a VC to stipulate that founders can't take a monthly pay check?

Really. Honest question: how common is that?

“Should” has nothing to do with it. The owner starts with 100% stake in the company and doles it out as they see fit. If someone is willing to work 40 hours a week for .01% of that, then that’s what they’ve agreed to. Similarly if a VC is willing to spend $X for Y%.

True. Then we have to examine the power dynamics and decide as a society if additional protections need to be given to workers. After all, there's way more pressure on a worker to provide food and shelter than on an employer to hire someone. It would be interesting to see what a union could come up with as an industry standard contract concerning equity distribution/compensation.

> It would be interesting to see what a union could come up with as an industry standard contract concerning capital distribution/compensation.

I think you mean equity distribution.

EDIT, Had another thought after posting:

Historically, if you had a world changing idea, you had to work your way up the ladder at GE/Bell/HP to get the resources to implement it, and the company didn't grant any equity. Bell Labs employees had a ceremonial signing away of their IP for $1 during onboarding. The idea that founders keep any equity is relatively new and if it's an indicator of a trend, it's likey that equity will be distributed more uniformly in future enterprises IMO.

There are numerous jobs available. No one is forcing you to choose a specific job.

Employees are payed based upon market rate. No one pays you based upon value.

If you think you are more valuable that's when you start your own venture because there is no upper limit on how much you make.

> Employees are payed based upon market rate. No one pays you based upon value.

Really depends on how much value one can provide.

> “Should” has nothing to do with it. The owner starts with 100% stake in the company and doles it out as they see fit.

This isn't a law of the universe. This is a property of our laws. So it is a question of "should", since the people are the ones deciding what laws to have.

It's not as if they decide after the mega-ipo on how much each individual will take home.

It's based on how much percentage of equity you owned in a worthless startup years before it got big.

If it's really worthless, then what explains the unequal distribution of the equity? Clearly it's valued enough for people to be stingy with it.

I'm just not sure why you think junior level employee #20 deserves more than what he agreed to when he got hired. Clearly he was making a full salary, probably with benefits, that compensated him for his work. He took no risk whatsoever.

I'm sure if junior level employee #20 said, "I'll work for half price if you include a bit more equity" there would be a lot of companies that would accept. However clearly he didn't want to take that risk at the time, so why should he get the reward?

"I'm just not sure why you think junior level employee #20 deserves more than what he agreed to when he got hired."

I'm not saying that.

"However clearly he didn't want to take that risk at the time, so why should he get the reward?"

This assumes that was an option. Some places hold onto equity very tightly.

So go join a company that gives more equity. There are thousands of companies to choose from

Founders can pay themselves a salary without automatically giving away their equity.

GP's discussion was a mega acquisition; there's a lot more ability to setup retention grants for each individual on those.

Even on a mega ipo, there's some opportunity to make stock grants before or after the event.

In both cases, team size matters. If there's a budget for retention or $1B and founders get 90%, that leaves $100M for regular employees; if you've got thousands of people to retain, the payouts won't be large. With a team of 100, the payouts will be nice.

In my opinion, the amount of risk taken on has a large role to play in the vast difference in outcomes. Starting a company would be like buying a bunch of lottery tickets. For every winner, there's a huge number of people who lost a ton of money or are just generally doing worse than if they had chosen a stable career. The key benefit of being an employee is protection from this risk. Contract work could be in between the risk/reward of a startup and the risk/reward of an employee. An employees could get paid significantly more doing the same kind of work on a contract basis, but a lot still choose the least risky option of being an employee. As an employee, you're not getting a million dollar check, but you do get consistency and a timely paycheck.

A fair wage doesn't necessarily have to be tied to the amount of money the founder receives.

Sure, risk reward is one way to look at it. But some people already have a bunch of money or family with money to fall back on. So they aren't really taking as much risk as say, someone who started out poor and has nothing to fall back on. In other words, risk is relative rather than absolute.

Yup it's more like risk of investment. Someone wealthy can risk a lot more than someone poor can without worrying about putting food on the table. They can afford many more lottery tickets and the poorer person is probably gonna have to play it safe as an employee for a while. That's a good case for evening the playing field with something like UBI. No one gets a check according to how much they need the money

Welcome to the capitalism. Long tail outcomes occur. Imagine they didn't... A 1000 ships would never have launched if it were not for the promise of outsized fortunes.

Similar story here, 3rd engineer, one of the first employees, during seed funding. I didn’t know anything about how equity worked. Company got acquired for 9 figures after I left the company after almost four years, I made a year’s salary windfall which was nice. The feeling of being taken advantage of remains and still burns a hole in me despite quite a lot of therapy and time.

Good lesson here is ask what your equity award means. How many shares outstanding? When's the next raise? Can I get more shares when I get diluted?

This is what people need to know, when they're joining a start-up as the 10th+ person. You ain't getting shit, and shit takes years to vest. I've been there. I've been flat out lied to. I've seen dozens of people work their asses off for 6 years and come out with less in stock than if they had just gotten a job at a boring company and taken annual bonuses.

There's an MFM podcast with founder of Hubspot. He says something pretty sensible along the lines of the first $1m makes a huge difference to your life, the first $10m even bigger, after that it's irrelevant. The basic point being you can only sleep in one bed a night, eat 3 meals a day and so really you only need to get to $10m and your life is transformed.

>> really you only need to get to $10m and your life is transformed.

I don't think this is as motivational as you believe it is.

It actually applies at smaller levels too.

The moment I went from being in debt to having $100 in a savings account was the most transformative.

I honestly think it’s diminishing returns from there.

It's diminishing returns right after you have fuck you money to live in reasonable luxury afterwards, e.g. you can travel as much as you want, order food in, buy latest tech widgets etc without having to ever work again.

People have the means to change their situation all the time and don't.

But a homeless person with $100 gets a room and dinner on a cold night.

For me it was realising that my total outgoings (after everything) are now 33% of what I earn every month and I have enough in savings to cover at least 2 years and every month I work adds two to that.

It’s not fuck you money in the I can retire sense but it’s more than I’ve ever earnt/saved before and very liberating.

Just got promoted so pay is going up again as well.

I find it demotivational because I know I'll never get to that level.

I think if you hit the first M and invest it in a reasonably broad manner you'll likely avoid touching poverty again. For someone who grew up poor that might be the most valuable buffer you can buy. But yes of course 10 would be better ;p

>you only need to get to $10m

The problem is making just $100 is difficult for a lot of people.

That's not a problem. Realize that all advice isn't valid for everyone and apply it appropriately.

That makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I have more friends who've made multiple millions from their businesses and their success doesn't create an itch in me, maybe I should think of him this way.

Above and beyond how to not be jealous, it might be worth considering how to also be a good friend. I imagine everybody this guy knows now has had a similar reaction and he may not have many real friends left (maybe I'm wrong) who can treat him the way they did before the money. Some people let wealth become their whole identity though, so if that's what he's doing it can be hard to connect.

I doubt too many people would cut off a centimillionaire from their life.

He definitely has not let wealth or success become his identity. I didn't know that he was so wealthy until recently but it happened years ago and it didn't change our relationship in any noticeable way. It's good to remember to be a friend.

That's awesome. Says a lot about your friend. Don't let this tidbit of knowledge you earned ruin your relationship, absolutely not worth it.

I have had a couple of my college buddies startup and work on their own and become wealthy, the side effect of this was their attitude change and entitlement and them looking at me differently because i was working a job. At some point, i decided to cut my ties with them because they had utter disregard to my life context and why i had to choose a job over starting up. I still want to work on my own, but my responsibilities,dependencies and life context is different, which is why i continue to work a job to save and buy some time to do things on my own. I will take time, meanwhile they can bask in their glory. Unfortunately, they don’t have a place in my life. Just sharing my experience here.

I'm sorry to hear that money stole your friends...

Money changes you, and big money alters you completely (at least from what i saw!). No regrets actually :) They had to go, and i cannot put up with people who look differently upon friends purely based on monetary status (are they friends really ?)

I don't think it changes you. I think it reveals who you actually are.

Agreed, and i believe it works both ways. Money can show who you really are, and money can change you as well (especially big money).

Read about stoicism and comparing yourself to others. I think no good comes from it, even if it gives you the motivation to succeed, the source of that motivation is external.

btw this stoicism is on point.

best start? the book meditations by marcus aurelius (gregory hays translation)

the most personal ruminations and frustrations we all have? emperors get it too.

Or if you have no problem with slightly archaic English, here is a free ebook: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2680

My first thought as well. At a basic level this is the age-old problem of comparing oneself to others, which is at once part and parcel of being a social animal, and has high potential for becoming pathological. My answer to these questions is invariably a philosophical endeavor to look inwards and practice the assessment of one's own inherent value independent of social factors and incidental economic structures. Beyond that I completely agree with other commenters who essentially say that jealousy/envy is merely the dark side of ambition/motivation. But it's a good idea to have a sense of one's own intrinsic value, while being aware that economic failure is not necessarily an indictment of one's talent or skill, just as economic success is not necessarily an indication of superior talent or skill.

I'm sympathetic to the stoic view, but wrestle with why it doesn't resonate with me. I think it's because at some level it seems to me to be a lie, or more accurately, it betrays the lie of society. There's some dissonance there. Sure, being stoic about it is actually healthy in a lot of ways but isn't it harmful too? What about the lot of the less fortunate? Stoicism would be fine if we as a society all shared some kind of empathetic orientation toward our fellow beings. It's not the fact someone else came out better, it's that we as a society proceed as if this always occurs because of some kind of just world, which is nonsense to use a polite word. Socialized risk, capitalized gain, stoic when things are bad, and just world when things are good.

It's this age old tension that arises with a lot of Buddhist philosophy and is embodied in the serenity prayer. At least it's a large source of tension for me: when do you let it go? Because some things shouldn't be let go.

You know, I have this exact feeling about the idea of "the meek shall inherit the earth" philosophy expounded in the Sermon on the Mount, but I haven't until now thought of it in terms of stoicism or buddhism. It's definitely important to have some idea of the difference between "fair" inequality that's just the luck of the draw that's unavoidable to some extent, and the "unfair" inequality that's a result of oppression and exploitation. It's almost certainly a bad idea to seek to simply stop comparing anything and be oblivious to all the differences between people. But like a lot of our natural thought processes there's a healthy version and a pathological version, but it's never really clear where exactly one becomes the other. There is a bit of a built in failsafe in Buddhism that is the idea of the "middle way", that indicates any "extreme" position is liable to be unhelpful. I find myself using that a lot, as I tend towards extreme views and am prone to oversimplified, black-and-white thought.

Here's my opinion as a casual person who watched a few youtube videos on this.

The only one we have full agency/control over is ourselves. Everyone individually will do what they want, so you can't really change society the way YOU want. The best thing is to understand yourself and how you fit into the world. If you do what is best for yourself, and by extension if you are a good person then YOU try to do what's best for society in your view.

I'll give you an example. Yesterday I got myself some fast food and I offered a homeless person my fries when he asked if I got anything. When I pulled the fries out of my bag, he asked me "Really bro? I'm not taking it after you touched them" Considering the guy had no mask on (we have a mask mandate in my city) and I tried to be nice, what am I supposed to do, feel bad for myself? I was willing to give up my fries, but hey if he doesn't want them that's not my problem. I'm not going to force him to take them, nor am I gonna get worked up over it.

In my mind, I'd like to give someone food. But they have an expectation as well, and there are times when I can't meet them. It happens, and I'm still able to rationalize my good intent.

Unless I'm misunderstanding I'm pretty sure I didn't hear anything to be a jerk or to stop being empathic towards people. However, given the track record of the ancient Romans in regard to their cruelty, maybe that plays a factor in why it appears so cold?

“Comparison is the thief of joy.”

Background: many of my former colleagues and team members have made it big. Really, 7-10 figures, big.

Firstly, it is not a lottery. There are several hygiene factors like being smart but the key differenting factor they all share is likeability. They all work well in teams and/or have been able to sustain a team of friends working through literal decades of moderate success and failure. This skill I do not have and that’s why I’m “merely” comfortable in my life.

Secondly, recognize you can’t jump over yourself. You are the sum of all the actions you have ever taken. Had you made different choices and not “wasted” your life, you’d be a different person now. Maybe a worse person?

Thirdly, everything in life has a price. People demonstrate success and hide the price. Children are awesome but are hard work and a huge amount of mental stress. A startup is a mental commitment taking a huge toll. Knowing the price of his success you are unlikely to be willing the price, trust me on this. It’s like a marathon: you are happy when you’re done and get a medal, but making yourself run one knowing the hurt coming your way is a different matter.

Interesting - my friend, without being particularly charismatic, is indeed very likable and has worked with some of the people involved for decades.

Interesting, one of my best friends from HS (and still close friend) made it 'big' and I had a very different reaction.

Now it might be because my friend made only two digit millions and not three, but it was shocking to me that after all his 80 hour work weeks for years and years, he ended up with a very similar lifestyle to myself and other well paid tech professionals.

Sure he doesn't have to work but he wants to. He has a very fancy big four bedroom house with a large yard and view, I have a smaller but still quite nice four bedroom without a view. My house isn't in as prestigious of a neighborhood, but very nice. He is in the 'top of the line' neighborhood. Same county, fifteen minutes from my house though.

He drives a 200k luxury car, I have an entry level luxury car. He flies first class or charters a private flight, I vacation in coach. We can go vacation at the same places, eat at the same restaurants, watch the same TV shows, etc.

Financial freedom is certainly nice, but it's interesting how the lifestyle changes going from a net worth of ~1-2M to ~50M is not that different?

Funny that you post the same idea right when I did.

100% agree, and I've experienced a lot and have thought about it a lot.

Fancy house - who cares if your house has everything you like (quiet study, comfy bed, stove, espresso machine). View is nice, but prob gets old.

Car - who cares. Driving a safe car with some good speakers is nice enough.

Flying - even if you're traveling, you don't do it a ton. Business class is within reach for us peons with points if you really want it for overnight to Europe or whatever. It's not that much better.

Everything else is basically the same. To get a good workout, you still have to make it happen and push yourself hard. To get a high quality girl, you still have to converse well, do fun things, and connect.

Of course it's natural to want more more more. But Remote job with >$100k salary is basically living like a king and we are super lucky.

From his perspective, all of his friends and family are now going to treat him differently. Some of them will be resentful. Some will wonder why he isn't being more generous with his money. Fortunately, you don't have to think about any of this stuff.

Recognize that those millions probably have very little impact on his actual happiness, and don't let them steal your happiness.

Life isn't a leaderboard. Assuming you're making a comfortable tech salary, you probably already have as much happiness as money can buy. Give your energy and attention to other things.

It's important to understand what's troubling you the most. The money or the status/class?

If it's the money, 100 million is hard to make; you probably have to play with somebody else's money. But if it's the fact that he's a founder/employer/boss and doesn't have a job in the traditional sense, like you do, that's a difference easier to reduce.

You don't have to start a company, raise money, hire people just to become your own boss. Being a freelancer or contractor will change your relationship with the people who pay you. Your dependence on them will decrease and you will have to refer to them as your clients.

Even though your business will have different sizes, you and your friend will be both business owners. It's like if he would have a very expensive car and you would a cheap one(instead of taking the bus), you'd both probably complain about the traffic.

A bit of envy and competition is not bad, can be motivating. You just have to try to keep it reasonable, to not let it take over.

Money isn't everything. It is true that at this point in your life you seem to be using money as the sole yardstick by which to compare the relative worthiness of others against yourself. Having spent significant time with very wealthy individuals in the past, I can tell you that most of them are unhappy. The conspicuous consumption for which they're infamous is one way for them to paper over the inner void which sucks joy out of their lives.

You'll need to learn to see beyond the superficial. Money and status are fleeting in the grand scheme of things. What else do you have going on?

> Money and status are fleeting

Also in a literal sense. Many people cannot manage huge amounts of money - see top level sports people losing fortunes. Others don't know how to live a normal life or lose drive for creativity afterwards. (I think that's what happened with Notch? I can't find the article now...)

> Money and status are fleeting

So is life. But you have only one, so it’s mind of natural to want it to be good.

We’re all on different journeys that have differing emotional, financial, physical, and spiritual characteristics.

Your friend just happens to have a journey with different finances than you.

However this person still needs all the other things during their journey that your friendship can give.

Watch this video:

https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I

Talent and hard work is not responsible for successful moonshots. They are often the prerequisites. But the ultimate disproportional success is achieved through sheer luck.

You might get lucky yourself or you might not. But it shouldn't make you feel any worse about yourself than hearing that your friend won the lottery, if you buy a ticket every now and then yourself.

With persistence comes luck. Not particularly a fan of balajis but I like the way he once put it: "Hardwork is flipping a coin a hundred times. Luck is having it come up heads".

It's a great video, but I really think there are four factors for entrepreneurial success. Hard work, good judgement, luck and appetite for risk. You really have to have all four, even just 3 in large measure is almost a guarantee of failure in startup land.

* With lack of hard work you just won't beat out harder working rivals.

* With poor judgement all that hard work will be going in the wrong direction.

* Without luck your timing or connections with the right collaborators might never work out.

* Without an appetite for risk you'll stick to the tried and true path and never truly innovate or take advantage of rare opportunities.

Skill and luck is a better distinction. Skill are all the things you have influence over and luck is all the things that you have no influence over. And for marvelous success you need both. And among people who achived such success most would have not achieved it if luck played no part in the process.

I suppose you can lump hard work, judgement and risk appetite under skill, but they really are very much different things. In particular I don't think risk appetite is something most people would consider part of skill. If anything I think most people would expect skilful people to take fewer risks and stick to things they know for sure.

I definitely recognise risk appetite as a skill because it's something I know I lack. On the other hand, taking big risks - and having the kind of personality that takes them - seems likely give rise to 10 badly spent lives for each good one. Can't farm black swans when your n is 1 or something.

Let's say maybe calibrated risk appetite. Too high of a risk appetite has its own problems especially long-term.

It must be difficult to see it so close.

I've been feeling a mild/medium case of the same thing just from the general news.

Every other story is about a bitcoin multi-millionaire, or companies I've never even heard of and that don't seem all that impressive, valued in 100s millions, NFT's sold for millions, etc, etc.

Most of it seems relatively un-earned/un-deserved, to me.

It all just completely devalues the 'real money' you get paid for full, hard 8+++ hour days and makes you wonder, why bother.

It wouldn't be so bad, but you just know some of these 'highly successful investors/entrepreneurs' might get to positions where they're demanding you change the button background color to fusia, now!, or you're fired! etc.

I fully think in this case they deserve the win. They worked hard, took risks, invented something that solved real problems, and have been executing flawlessly on it. I don't feel like it's an unfair win, I'm just wondering if I'm playing the right game.

Fair enough, some do deserve to win.

But 100s millions?

Separately, I'd agree the game is rigged, but there isn't much I think I can do about that beyond casting my vote responsibly... it doesn't really bother me.

Good for you, then your problem is simply picking the right path through the casino.

For me, the riggedness of the game urges me towards the 'don't play' strategy.

Lol exactly! Thank you for this. For now I'm at the slot machines all day getting soaked on cheap whisky and I just saw a high roller come out. Maybe the best move is not to play.

100s of millions is the result of the power law. "Winners take most" is how things in tech tend to work.

I made a lot of money in crypto and I think I deserve every penny. I told everyone I knew that crypto was the future, I got into the industry, and practically nobody listened (let alone the HN echo chamber which is to this day fiercely anti-crypto). I made an investment based on independent, contrarian analysis and it paid off. This is extremely deserved money.

Did you keep any friends from your pre-money days? How did the wealth change your relationships, where you hang out, etc.?

Yes I have a very tight group of friends I have maintained since grade school, and a very tight family. My brother also became self-made wealthy which is nice. I keep business associates separate from family and friends and don’t mentally believe my coworkers or business partners are friends even if I do friend-things with them. If someone is unhappy with my success no one has told me or dropped me. But I still believe in family above all things, and I invest a lot of time in the friendships I maintain, which is an old-school belief especially in tech.

So you literally pressed a button a few times and made a ton of money on a pyramid scheme. Congrats.

PoW has value to the individual but maybe a negative value to society as a whole. PoS will just get co-opted by big money.

Not a pyramid scheme and it's no different than buying AMZN stock. Except my purchase was ridiculously contrarian compared to buy and hold FAANG.

Yeah I mostly agree, just trolling. When did you get in?

I have worked professionally in crypto since 2016

I have a “rule” for myself and I believe it has served me well: I avoid comparing myself against others. I think this is a sound approach. I try to do the things that I believe in and make sense in my life.

Most everyone I considered a friend who "made it big" simply moved to a different social circle.

Self-correcting problem, I guess. ;-)

It's not surprising in tech to have co-workers who are fabulously wealthy. Usually if they're still working then it's no different than working with anyone else. One thing I like about rich tech workers is they often buy cool cars (like a McLaren I saw a day or two ago) and park them at their companies or around town.

lol ask if he's hiring - for a friend, of course.

and if he's been in a different economical strata than you for a while and it hasn't changed things on his end, sounds like you have a real friend. don't screw that up over financial jealousy.

All Cristiano Ronaldo's family work for him in some way. AFAIK, his oldest brother was the only one that tried to live independently. One day he gave in.

The moral of the story is not clear but probably there are some lessons to take.

Having worked with three digit millionaires: they’re not thinking of you, so stop thinking of them.

Maybe if that's how you know them. This is someone I know from before wealth and who hasn't been acting as a stranger though. I didn't know they had become this wealthy until very recently.

That’s a fair point. I still think it’s true that they will now experience life differently from you so prepare for that. Don’t worry about how you compare to them, focus on your own goals near and long term and maybe they can invest in a friends and family round in the future :)

How long ago did this happen? If it was a while back, and you didn't find out from them directly ... maybe they are not as good as a friend as you thought they were?

They did tell me that the business was working well. I didn't care to ask how much they made from it, and it is public knowledge at this point, I just never bothered to look it up.

To me that sounds like they are a good friend who wants to be open but doesn’t want money to come between you two. One could quibble with that decision but it sounds better than a lot of other approaches.

lol - you gotta get over that. Would you feel like you’re wasting time in your job if he was broke or the startup was struggling? Probably not.

As time goes on, this happens more. I have friends who are like this and I have no jealousy or envy towards them. Sure, it’d be great if I had all that money - but what good does that feeling do? Unless you can turn this feeling into actionable steps that improve your wellbeing - stop thinking about it. It’s completely worthless otherwise. Comparison is the thief of joy.

> Would you feel like you’re wasting time in your job if he was broke or the startup was struggling? Probably not.

Right, that was my experience with other friends who got into the startup game.

> Unless you can turn this feeling into actionable steps that improve your wellbeing - stop thinking about it. It’s completely worthless otherwise. Comparison is the thief of joy.

I'm definitely not jealous and I'm not even sure I'm envious but there's definitely an unhelpful comparison going on in my mind. I completely understand this from a rational standpoint - but trying to remind myself not to compare myself to others hasn't actually resulted in me comparing myself to others less. I need the thing that helps me go from "I understand this line of thinking leads to unhelpful feelings" to actually stopping the thinking. My mind goes there on its own...

Someone else’s success is not your failure. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Luck and timing has a much higher factor in success than pure hard work.

Here comes an unpopular opinion: Learn from it and act on it.

If you are young and smart, building a business is just so much more fun than doing a normal job.

Stop wasting your time. Go to twitter and search for '#buildinpublic'. Follow the journeys of other people for a while. It does not need a hundred million dollar company to outperform a regular job. It just needs a nice online product that brings in more than a job.

Check out this essay by Paul Graham:

http://www.paulgraham.com/todo.html

His summary of life: "Don't be a cog".

You still have all the options to not be a cog.

>> If you are young and smart, building a business is just so much more fun than doing a normal job.

Which I (genuinely) assume you are. The reality is far more nuanced than this. Building a "nice online product that brings in more than a job" is the non-trivial lede that you buried in there, and everyone working a job is not wasting their time working a job as a cog.

Yes, it is non-trivial.

But a job is non-trivial as well. So many hours of your life go into it. Over so many years.

You don’t even have to be young, necessarily. In fact being an “older” person in tech probably means you’ve built up a wealth of experience, and a cushion of resources for getting your business started.

Money is a poor metric for determining your overall success or failure. Particularly if you don't elect to take full command if your economic output by going solo and instead working for others.

I choose to run a startup. My motive is to improve the world and the lives of others. Which is much harder to measure. Money is trusted to this, but not the only measure. I'd rather make less in many instances and improve things more because this fits my goals.

I advise to re center yourself in your own life goals. The only person it makes sense to measure yourself against is yourself.

I had the same problem. I felt so much better after i expressed how i felt to my friend. It is ok to feel that way, its compeletly normal. Don't try to overcome it, just ack that its normal and move on.

Interesting. How did they react? Was it in the US? (My friend and I are from a culture where talking about money is less socially acceptable than in the US.)

Most people here don't and won't get it. I'd say just do what you have to.

To me, if I never tried, that's a failure. To most people, who have never been "cursed" with a super successful friend or relative, they fail when they fail. But to me, failure is at least an end to the curse.

It's an entirely different place. That's why many suicides come from middle class kids failing exams and a lot of divorces come from businesspeople. There's that calling and you'll be forever miserable at whatever you do until you make the leap.

I'd add also: if your friendship is important to both of you it's also up to your friend to handle this properly. If your friend doesn't care, then stop calling it friendship and move on.

Life is a marathon, not a sprint. The fact he made it big now says nothing about his or your future.

... but it is a marathon you have to sprint. The older I get the more I realize this. But you are right. Net worth is what it is now and there is something very weird with the economy and company valuations at this point.

You are feeling envious. Learn to use it productively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhrTOg1RUk

It's natural to have such thoughts along with the feelings they bring. However, you should reflect on the following instead of thinking about 'why not me?' as the latter would cause only suffering.

"Oh mind, his present life and success is based on the choices he had made and ours is similarly based on the choices we had made (here we is collectively referring to you and your mind since you're having a conversation together). It's possible that we could have made similar choices but it's not guaranteed to have similar success as 99% of startups fail so we chose a safer alternative which most people choose anyway."

Now count your blessings (things you have in current life like family work-life balance, hobbies, trips etc.) that have been facilitated by your path.

Finally, "Oh mind, if you think we should also try the other path, are you ready for the risks, struggles, compromises and lack of any guarantee of success it holds?" and reflect on the worse that can happen. If your mind is fine with that, you can plunge into the new path.

But, wait for at least a week and see if the mind still holds the same enthusiasms; it's one thing to get influenced by something and take an impulsive decision while sticking on one's decision is a different ballgame

When I was at AOL in the mid-90s, I got stock options on multiple occasions, always with a four year vesting period. In 1997, the environment became so toxic there that I could no longer stay.

I later calculated that if I had been able to stay, and kept all my options and cashed them in at the height of the market, I would have made $16m.

But my life and my sanity are worth much more to me than a measly $16m.

Sure, you can look at the money. But you also have to look at your life and what it’s doing to you.

I'd be very impressed and also be very envious but your life will go on regardless of what your friend does. You need to live for yourself and earn for yourself unless he's willing to toss a few million your way.

I had a neighbor who won BIG on the lottery but it was their undoing in the end. You can congratulate them and then go back to your regular interaction. How they change is entirely up to them.

Undoing in what way? Btw my friend hasn't changed in ways that I've noticed.

There a lots of case studies of lottery winners where they end up massively overspending their winnings and have a hard time returning to their old way of life, but can't maintain their temporary standard.

I think (but have no data) that that's less likely for people who made it big through business/startups. Although you certainly hear some stories about people who blow the money and have to go back to the grind.

Lost their house as they remortgaged to prop up the failed business venture of a sports bar. All those vacations to far of lands and gambling debts soon add up.

One perspective is that on average if you stopped random punters in the street and asked them to list their ten biggest problems then you might find 5-7 of them can't be fixed with money - eg friend or relative very ill/dying, child not motivated at school, spark gone from marriage etc etc.

That sort of puts perspectives on it.

Think your friends got very lucky (like someone with a Powerball jackpot), cheer for them then move on. Maybe you will do a bit of self-reflection but you know 95% of startups fail so continue with your current job is not a terribly bad idea. Unless you truly detest your job then you should change it anyway.

There's nothing that rich people can do that is so amazing.

Any girls that like him because he's rich are gonna be deadweight or negative in like 5-10 years. Any of the food, you can get great food for $10-$50. Drinks who cares. Working out, costs essentially nothing. Travel, you can easily do it and have a great time while working remote. I went snorkeling in costa rica and it was free. Coffee -- best coffee can cost like $5. Drugs -- dead end. Also don't even cost much.

Nothing about his lifestyle is substantially better. The only thing that is better is that he doesn't have to do stupid jobs if he doesn't want to. You can get to the same spot by getting a solid job, investing well, living a reasonable lifestyle. If you have 300k saved up you can take whatever job you like that comes your way.

choose to feel inspired not jealous. choose to think: "I like what he's got. How can I get some of that, too?" Then choose to go after it!! :)

I would advise against that, because a decision to start a business basing on that short term inspiration/envy moment would not last.

It's better to let the emotions play out, and not make decisions basing on them.

Sure but what if that emotion is transformative for you what if you realize by going through this that you did want this? And that you just didn't realize you could want it before? So you see people around you getting it and you think, "well, I could get it too, why not?" That's a real thing, there's power in those communities. Those emotions could play out like that. There's no need to pretend there's no chance to make up for how you never did.

They should take some months before commiting to a decision , if they still want it after then, they should do it.

I am definitely feeling more inspired than jealous.

That's the spirit! Awesome. You've inspired me tonight thank you :-)

I knew I was on to something with this :p ;) xx

Jealousy is never the right word. Feeling of loss is. Losing faith in yourself and losing a close friend. Buddies will always be buddies but it will be harder to connect from now on. Most likely will never be like it was. True connection happens between peers.

Just let go. Nothing to do there.

Lots of good advice here about how to handle your feelings.

I'll add one more idea: it might help you to consider your friend's feelings. How is this affecting him?

Becoming wealthy rapidly is obviously a great problem to have, but it can also be an extremely disorienting problem. Friendships change (as you know), relationships break down. Some people are ruined by success - they fall out with friends, marriages collapse, drink and drugs etc

It's like gravity was switched off for you only, but you still have to walk on the ground.

I'm saying this not to help your friend but because it might help you handle this, if you can understand his challenge.

Though, if you do understand, then maybe you can be a good friend.

It's a good point. In particular I feel it's going to make parenting challenging because his children will know growing up that they will never need to work.

ah, thats just at first.

you two are dealt with different cards in life. different upbringing, different plates, different problems, and even different luck.

it's okay to contrast and compare, gotta see life as it is, lol. but you gotta factor in things that are out of our control.

gotta make something out of what we have. regardless if we make it that big or not, an ounce of appreciation of what's infront of us really goes a long way.

nothing wrong in striving towards comfort and luxury, nothing wrong in being a little salty on how others get it easier (some are even born to it, right lol). just see and live life as it is.

oh, typing this as a broke guy in mid 20s. had spent time in a room with people worth 8 to 9 figs too.

and i can tell you, even 0.01% of their net worth would give me hell of a good time for weeks, haha.

fuck. fffffuck.

This reminds me of the adage that most people don't want to have a million dollars, they want to spend it.

You don't become a millionaire by spending a million dollars, but by _not_ spending it.

> most people don't want to have a million dollars, they want to spend it.

Had not heard that one, that's very good.

Maybe when you are young... I always wanted a lot of money not to spend it but to do whatever I want. So freedom. And for me freedom is cheap so I have always been rich in my mind. I want to work with people I like, take off when I want to etc but I do not care, at all, about having stuff or luxury.

god damn i actually agree

all i thought was ways to spend it

Sounds like he didn’t actually have a liquidity event? In which case, his net worth is mostly paper money, so while I’m sure he’s doing nicely and I wish him for this money to become real money eventually, it is just not the case at this point, so he’s probably not as crazy rich as you’re thinking. At this point, he probably can only liquidate some of it with board approval, and can’t do it too much because of the signaling risk that comes with it.

It's liquid alright (public).

Ooooh, ok then yeah.

I have a really good friend that made it big.

I don’t make a big deal about it. I still meetup with him from time to time and he gives me great tips and advice to get started.

Work on yourself until you are genuinely happy for him.

I think you can be genuinely happy for someone, but still jealous.

I know I am. I don’t begrudge anyone earning half a million per year, but I still want that for myself.

I'm very happy for him and I don't feel jealous or even envious. It's only causing me to question my professional choices.

I apologize, I really misunderstood what you meant in your post. Obviously you aren't wasting your time, your friend got lucky, and your time may come. I'm sure you are doing just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

Personally, I enjoy stories, parables, the dialectic when it comes to such things. S1 E4 of Billions (TV, 2016) Axe takes his childhood buddies to a private rock concert (and one friend does something stupid with some trading info he overhears).

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4704400/

Why are you comparing yourself to your friend? If you want to be happy, don't compare because there will always be people who are better off than you.

Congratulate him and make him a mentor :)

PS: Also, it is his "net worth". That term is very loaded. It means he is not actually big, but is being projected as big.

You’ve already got it figured out - be happy for him. Some of the best advice I’ve heard is “someone else’s success isn’t your problem”.

We all know that financial success isn’t the measure of a life. So take it to heart. And that means your job and whether it’s a waste is a completely different matter entirely.

Recommend this book that gives a balanced view of the perks and problems of being super-rich

https://books.google.com/books/about/Jackpot.html?id=9vvtDwA...

Thanks. What were your takeaways from it?

On the flip side, you could’ve tried to do a startup and burned yourself out beyond recognition, only to have it fail. Even if you told yourself that you at least had to try. There can be regret on both sides. Only a very small percent actually strike gold.

Don't ask your friend for money under any circumstances.

Stay friends and learn to deal with it. As you get older you'll encounter a lot more people who have done "better" than you.

Finally, you can take my grandfather's advice: "wealth is in the brain"

Would you feel this way if he'd won big after buying a lottery ticket, or received an inheritance from a family member?

He took a risk (potentially, maybe he's the founder, maybe it's equity) and it paid off. It could just as equally not have.

Inheritance I wouldn't care about because there's nothing I can do to change what I inherit. Lottery I'd probably care about, though. I've always looked down on people who buy into lottery but I think if I saw someone close to me win big I might feel like I missed out for not playing. It's a good comparison because I remember the early years when his business success was really far from certain - he bought a lottery ticket that was probably worth several hundred thousand dollars in the first years (income he would've easily made if he'd been an employee instead of being a business owner without any customers).

Move somewhere you're much richer than the average.

I'm already there! Living well below my means too.

I am in the same boat except my coworkers are not millionaires or so but they all got promoted and I am stuck with my role for 5 years now.

Unless there's been an unfavorable change in attitude among you, there should be nothing to actually "handle".

Whatever is to handle is not between us but 100% in my head, I agree.

1) Please read Fooled by randomness book. Your friend won Russian Roulette. You want to try too?

2) Your friendship is essentially over. Cherish the past and let him go. Find friends in near about your income bracket. Better if they are poor than you by some margin

3) Read Stoicism

4) Focus on you and your family's wellbeing. Blood is thicker than water. So stop wasting time on who is digging hole where and how much deep and look after your hole and start digging your own hole. Metaphorically !

many, i dunno, but i feel like if i ever hit it big or evenly mildly big (say, $10M), i'd prob be handing that stuff out.

to at least everyone who i owed in one way or another, any/every friend, family, etc.

of course, politics/organizing/etc.

but i guess it could be really tricky.

Recognise the fact that he was in the right place at the right time. If a few things outside his control were slightly different, he would have come away with little to show for his effort. He is the outlier, not you.

Hard work leads to a comfortable life (if you don't start with a disadvantage). Hard work and luck leads to a windfall. No luck means no windfall.

I've learned this through observation, as I was in a team of about 12 who developed and demonstrated the first OFDM WiFi system. After the initial project ended, we went different ways and there was a huge spread in payout (2000x) over subsequent years. It's proof to me that you can't define "wasted time" in terms of subsequent windfall. Despite the differing rewards, we all did the same work. had an equal part in the experience and get to say "I did that".

Other examples show that some of the most valuable work doesn't result in windfalls. How many of the scientists who developed vaccines, which have saved millions of lives, have several hundred million dollars to their name? I'd guess approximately zero.

If my friends startup made it big I would be angry that I didn't start my own

Ever since you were born, there have been people with unfathomable wealth. Statistically speaking, you stand a good chance of rubbing shoulders with a number of them throughout your lives. Money is always passing to somebody, whether that's an heir, or a plucky kid with an idea, it's always going to change hands at some point.

Your plan for your life hasn't changed. Sure, a friend may have hit it big. Well, bully for them. But you weren't expecting that, and truth be told, they likely weren't either when you first became friends. You're still on the path that you were on, dead-end job or ideal career, nothing has changed for you in any long-term way.

Perhaps it isn't so much dissatisfaction of your own life, but more that you're realizing the flaws of capitalism. You likely have to work your butt off to make ends meet, whereas he's got more wealth than you could spend in several lifetimes living as an average person.

The good news, if he came from somewhat humble beginnings, there's a good chance he's going to be reinvesting that money into creating jobs, opportunities and maybe even new niches or whole industries for people to benefit from. If he doesn't—well, did you really want friends like that in the first place?

Regardless of what you might think, money probably isn't going to make you happy. Neither is having lots of nice things or being surrounded by fake friends who are only pally towards you because you've got digits in a database somewhere.

We all end up in the same place eventually. Be grateful of what health you have, what health people you care about have, and enjoy your moment in the sun, not jealous, hateful. Here today and gone tomorrow. Who knows when your number is going to come up? So just live and give the things and people your precious time which you feel genuinely deserve it.

If he’s not a dick about it… there is nothing to handle. Get your T level checked if you’re a guy.

I think of this when I have a FAANG job in the six figures but people make millions flipping shit on Amazon.

I had a friend like this and another friend who was/is massively Instagram famous. I had absolutely no idea in either case until years later. I guess they weren’t very close friends lol.

unfriend him ?

well if we're going that route...marry then poison? or marry then have kids then divorce then fabricate lies to earn custody and support payments? blackmail? talk to tabloids?

interesting options : )

if you really want to compare: does your blood sweat and tears match his? i mean, compare the input as well, not just a small part of the visible output.

You probably can't be friends with him anymore. You can be social and "know" him, but the differences between the ultra-rich and the masses impact every aspect of life and preclude a deep social connection.

The good news is that $100M+ is such a ridiculously large number that humans can't really do a good job of imagining what that means, so the psychological impact is less than if you found out your friend was worth $5M.

I very strongly disagree with this advice.

If my startup had netted me over a hundred million dollars I would start to have real concerns about making new friends. It would be incredibly difficult to know whether someone wanted to be friends genuinely, or if in some way it was really about the money (and celebrity). This would make my pre-existing friendships that much more valuable to me.

But it's more likely that the new friends are already rich, same 100M+ Club, whom you meet at the Fundraising events, Private Jet Review Meetup, and other events rich people do.

So i think it would be natural and they would not be interested in your money.

It's also likely that the old friends can change, and start to see you as source of money.

And can definitely ruin the friendship, if every few weeks a request for 300k to fix some stuff comes up.

It might be worth burning the friendship outright to gwt money, since you're not staying friends anyway.

Think of it this way. You were both serfs. He now got crowned king. You're not going to keep hanging out with a king anyway, might as well try to get him to make you a minor noble. It can change your life and the worst thing that can happen is you stay serf.

As americans say, why leave money on the table?

Yes it makes sense for the poor friend to try to get some money.

The difference in wealth is so large that the poor friend's life can be easily changed.

It would be smart for the rich guy to change his friends' lives without being asked, if they were friends and still close enough.

It's also true that people will also overestimate their friendship with the rich guy because now the king can easily change your life.

There is no way someone who suddenly becomes very rich will keep most of the past relationships.

From close friendships to the bulies from highschool, almost everyone will try to reach out and try to get some of that cash.

> So i think it would be natural and they would not be interested in your money.

Why not? Same as in cheap friends who are interested in a free lunch or something.

Friendship happens when there is a mutual past-time to share, a similar culture/mindset and little to no business conflict. It also require that the other party has no friends already, or doesn't have a family that makes him busy.

All in all, it's very hard to make any friends when you are older whether you are rich or poor.

Jikes that sounds like a nightmare; clubs for useless things just to belong. I think we can start with the simple point that many people do not know what real friends are. What many people consider real friends are, in Rowan Atkinson's words a 'close personal acquaintance' [0]. And a lot of people have 10s to 100s of them. That makes no sense and those are, probably none of them, friends at all. When your situation changes (wealth, illness, poverty etc) you will notice that quite rapidly.

[0] https://youtu.be/mq78D-3HwEM

> the differences between the ultra-rich and the masses impact every aspect of life

> It would be incredibly difficult to know whether someone wanted to be friends genuinely, or if in some way it was really about the money

I guess what the other commenter was implying is that they make friends with other ultra-rich people?

Yeah. He never again has to worry about having food, roof over his head, about a job, about finding a romantic partner, about having enough for his children. He doesn't have to worry about most laws since he has lots of money for lawyers and most legal systems are pay to win. He dorsn't have to care about climate change, droughts, flood, whatever, he can move anywhere in the world instantly.

He will have no human worries, no human problems.

You probably can't be friends with someone who is effectivelly a different species.

EDIT: also just with 1m usd you're set for life and never have to work and be poor again. So in a way, he doesn't need 99% of his wealth. So if he is not using at least some of it to help people and the world, he's not a good person.

Just keep in mind that humanity is in the process of extincting itself due to irreversible climate change and the repercussions of that, and if his startup isn't helping with that, then it doesn't matter.

Also, both you and him, and most of us here, will be dead within a hundred years anyway, so don't get too hung up on what's happening now, as for the most part it'll be as if neither of you ever existed anyway.

I think the underlying, subconscious question is: if they are not sharing any of that wealth, would you still consider them a friend?

Hint: the answer should be yes

Ok, what if you were married to someone who suddenly made millions but didn't share any of the wealth with you, but consumed it all themselves?

Even if you hate that you are jealous, would you consider it fair of them to put this much stress on your psychological well-being, thereby putting your relationship at risk?

That's a legal question and the answer in most countries is - they can't do that. From non-legal side - people don't have the same expectation from marriage and friendship.

Well, according to my question they live in a country where they can :)

And, no, this was not a legal question at all. Can you pinpoint what exactly makes the expectation of friendship and marriage different in this context? Assume both people have full-time jobs, both take care of children the same amount of time, etc.

Most people have only one spouse and many friends, and probably more people claiming to be friends if they hear there’s money in it.

> Can you pinpoint what exactly makes the expectation of friendship and marriage different in this context?

No, I believe you're trolling at this point. I'll end here.

Ad hominem response to an honest philosophical question.

I don't think this is a honest philosophical question. First you need to define what you are talking about, specifically what you define as marriage and friendship if you're taking edge cases of being in a country without legal marriage protections and insinuating that friends are raising kids together. I think the other person's interpretation that you are trolling is more believable than your claim. This could change if you are able to articulate your argument (whatever that might be).

But the legality aspect doesn't matter in this case. It's about the friendship/marriage and how you feel about yourself and the other under these circumstances. It's possible in some countries to be married and not share wealth, but if it weren't you could consider it purely hypothetical. With the question I asked, I wanted to evoke philosophical curiosity. Even the great Greek philosophers ruminated about what it means to be friends versus married, so it must be an interesting topic, and certainly when combined with the topic of this post. And if you wonder about my "definitions", just assume that they are as diametrically opposed to your view as possible, to make an interesting conversation.

"And if you wonder about my "definitions", just assume that they are as diametrically opposed to your view as possible."

Looks like a solid definition of trolling...

I dislike that this is downvoted. I think it's a meaningful question. If I could spend a 1% of my net worth to ensure my closest friends and family never had to work again, and that 1% had no meaningful difference in my own quality of life, I would absolutely do that. I would treat myself plenty if I had lots of money, but most of it I would spend on those close to me. I don't really see the point of most of it otherwise.

I think it says something about someone's character if they sacrifice very little of their own to make a big difference for those around them. it doesn't necessarily mean that if they don't that they're a bad person, but it is something to consider why they wouldn't.

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