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Comment by hannob | Hacker News Reader

Are they?

I can't access the article behind the paywall, but I ultimately have a very simple question: Where can I (living in Germany, Europe) buy one of these milk alternatives that tastes like milk? Can you name a shop?

I would like to buy it. I'm willing to pay a premium. I feel this is an important enough development given the high greenhouse gas impact of milk that I'd like to be an early adopter.

It's not the first time I read about something like this, but often enough if you look into some of these plant replacements it's some startup saying "we have fancy tech that allows us to create this product that really is like the original", but they only announce it, but haven't gotten to the point to actually produce and sell it.

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I'm worried that there might be regulatory hurdles. The article says:

> nobody has to convince regulators that the foods are fit for human consumption, because they are made using microorganisms and processes that are already “generally recognised as safe”.

But the only mention of the "food industry" is FDA, which is specific to the USA:

> When Perfect Day asked the FDA to approve its whey protein in 2020, the agency said yes right away.

But is a "real milk alternative" available in the US? Perfect Day seems to only sell ice cream. (I don't eat a lot of ice cream, but from what I can tell vegan ice cream alternatives are already pretty good. It's actual milk - and cheese - that are the challenge.)

is it not easier to simply buy carbon offsets, if that's your actual concern in the first place?

We will never replicate the real thing closely enough. Microbiome/proteome alone is going to be impossible, without all the small peptides and antibodies - it will never be the same.

Milk itself isn't the healthiest food either. Cow milk is the most prevalent allergen, but it's mostly chronic inflammation instead of full blown anaphylaxis and thus ignored. You do not have to be lactose intolerant, it is true allergy to proteins in milk.

https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nut...

Humans were not supposed to eat it. It was just something that helped us survive in frozen wastelands.

> is it not easier to simply buy carbon offsets, if that's your actual concern in the first place?

My concern is not my personal carbon footprint (I am very skeptical about the concept in general), my goal would be helping to make technologies available faster that can make a dent in societies carbon footprint as a whole.

And carbon offsets are hugely problematic. I'm inclined to say the vast majority of them are close to being a scam.

skeptical about the concept in general...but want to make a dent in societies carbon footprint...?

Doesn't personal footprint translate into societal footprint?

Otherwise, nothing short of banning all food and force-feeding everyone bugs, or having a few world wars is going to make a dent.

Eh, we can force feed everyone processed beans instead.

I buy carbon offsets to try to blunt my impact but I'd also pay a premium for more sustainable milk (and more importantly cheese) that was harder to distinguish.

Carbon offsetting is a poor substitute for just not having a big carbon footprint to begin with. It's a sticking plaster at best, and incredibly hard to verify the impact of as an individual consumer.

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