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Comment by user-the-name | Hacker News Reader

> Have you seen Brazil?

Brazil is fiction. Judging how you relate to things in the real world by comparing them with things that were made up to be funny is not how you achieve insight.

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Um... Yes, Brazil is fiction but the dystopia it portrays is rooted in extrapolations of the times in which it was made.

Its absolute nonsense to shoot someone down on the basis that they draw parallels to movies or other artforms. Especially if those works of fiction are intended as warnings / cautionary tales.

As it is i thought the parent comments comparison to Brazil was fairly apt in this situation...

When I watched Brazil the first time as I was a kid I couldn't imagine anything shown there being possible in real life. Especially the lack of the right to repair - we repaired everything from all the plumbing and electric wiring (and that was in apartment buildings, not just in private houses, private houses didn't even require any bureaucracy at all - people just built for themselves whatever way they wanted from whatever materials they had, often without any project whatsoever) to all the electronics, let alone cars ourselves during those days. I also couldn't imagine people being be SWATed in their homes for non-violent offenses (by mistake or not).

Now I see the movie has been implemented into life almost precisely and the AI with mass surveillance has been introduced to make it even worse.

To make it more fun and looking realistic today they even portrayed people kinda watching Netflix on their office computers when the boss doesn't look (AFAIK computers were not actually capable of streaming videos over the network during the days the movie was filmed).

My assumption was the homes in Brazil were owned by the state, so the restrictions aren't even really hyperbolic. If you've ever lived in government/military housing they can come and inspect how clean you're keeping the place at any time, for example.

This is a pretty obtuse perspective. Fiction can be written for the express purpose of achieving insight. Just because something is fictional or humorous doesn't limit that - it can emphasise it. See - A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift.

The converse does not hold, though, that any satire must give you insight into the real world.

Just referencing a random piece of satire when discussing the real world gives absolutely no insight in and of itself.

I'd hardly call one of the most acclaimed dystopian-bureaucracy films a 'random bit of satire'. If you've not watched and understood it (clearly the latter of that is especially true) I dont think you've any right to claim it's not relevant to anything.

I've seen it multiple times.

I also understand that it is fiction, and it is exaggerated, and it is highly silly.

It is not a prophecy, it not a guide to reality, it is a silly film by a guy from Monty Python who was annoyed at bureaucracy, a very simple and shared part of human experience.

So why are you criticising someone highlighting annoyance of encroaching bureaucracy referencing a work of fiction that deals with this "shared part of human experience" in a "simple way"?

No one is saying its a 1:1 guide to reality, but as a nightmare vision of a dystopia gripped by unnecessary administrative apparatus, silly or not, it is a work of fiction that takes its root from reality and then makes a farce of it.

There are reasons works like kafkaesque, orwellian, ballardian become part of the lexicon despite all dealing with fictional universes of their own making...

None of that makes "Having an human approve apps is JUST LIKE BRAZIL" in any way an insightful thing to say.

It was just a person, on the internet making a 4 word reference to a famous movie... I don't know why you're intent on endlessly attacking the "lack of insight" from the poster.

Have you seen the Jerk? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jerk

Brilliant...

I guess you think Monty Python films are just 'silly films' too, completely overlooking the intelligent satire present throughout the entire films, that will be studied and admired as top level satire for generations to come?

It's astonishing to me that you can't seem to grasp how effective fiction is at laying bare (albeit in an exaggerated fashion) the issues present in the real world.

Hot take of the year - all fiction is irrelevant and incomparable to the real world.

How the hell can anyone come to that conclusion I don't know.

Try reading what is actually said before responding.

That's a bit rich coming from you in this context.

Like all the good science fiction, Brazil has a very strong component of social commentary.

The time machine is about class division and class warfare.

1984 is about Stalin's style totalitarianism.

And so on...

Having social commentary is not the same as having insight. You can easily comment on society, and have those comments be absolute garbage.

Not saying that Brazil does this, but just because someone comments, does not mean they have something important to say.

Yeah, but it seems like you're trying to have it both ways. On the one hand you're arguing that the insights into society can be absolute garbage and on the other implying (or suggesting) that Brazil doesn't necessarily fall into this category.

So what is it then? Brazil does make interesting points about encroaching bureaucracy (and therefore the parents post is justified)? I think you took the point about Brazil a bit too literally, the poster was never suggesting that the world is suddenly exactly that way, more highlighting the parallels. I think you need to allow yourself to suspend disbelief a little more and realise the very deliberate allegorical nature of these movies...

I mean, judging by the greyed out appearance of all your posts on this topic I would say it seems you're in the minority with this kind of opinion.

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