Comment by pdimitar | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pdimitar | Hacker News Reader

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> IMO, a "code janitor" doesn't just sit around all day reading HN. When I use those words, I mean the type of job where you're expected to fix bugs and implement features and not much else.

Yes. We are on the same page, just using different words.

I definitely didn't mean "slacking off". I meant exactly what you said: have 3.5 to 4.5 hours of good solid programming work per day (because realistically that's what most programmers cover in terms of actual focused productive time in the standard 8h work day) where you have already ticked the boxes (or nobody cares about them as you said) so you just pull stuff from a backlog and move at a steady pace with not much supervision.

The company I am very soon starting with has people I like very much, plus I love what they do. But if that turns sour then I'd likely be looking for 2-3 "code janitor" jobs in parallel in order to protect my mental health for a while.

> When a recruiter wants to connect on LinkedIn and have a short phone conversation about an exciting new position, you always say yes.

Maybe you are right. To me outright insisting on a phone call is very disruptive and out of place. I've tried it several times and maybe I drew the short end of the stick every time but they all were young and fairly clueless HRs who just wanted to parrot their speech that was supposed to motivate me and then immediately pressure me for an answer. Don't know, didn't find that a good expenditure of my time.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, I am open to that, but I really am not sure that I want to expose myself to such toxic time wasters. Any advice?

> But if that turns sour then I'd likely be looking for 2-3 "code janitor" jobs in parallel in order to protect my mental health for a while.

Oh, I wouldn't try to juggle multiple code janitor jobs. It only takes one good one to pay my bills. And it would defeat the benefits that I perceive in the code janitor job. If someone wants to put that level of effort into his career, he's better off aiming higher.

> Maybe I am doing something wrong, I am open to that, but I really am not sure that I want to expose myself to such toxic time wasters. Any advice?

Ask for the client and salary range immediately. If they don't give you a straight answer, politely end the conversation.

> Ask for the client and salary range immediately. If they don't give you a straight answer, politely end the conversation.

That's... actually a very good advice!

But what if they counter it with "we'd like to hear your expectations first"?

> If someone wants to put that level of effort into his career, he's better off aiming higher.

You are right but I have zero clue how to aim higher, exactly. Hence my idea.

It depends on the type of recruiter. If you're working with an external recruiter (like an agency recruiter), they're not going to do that. They'll just give you the client's expected salary range. I've never had an external recruiter play this game with me.

If it's an internal recruiter, you might get that question. In that case, have a good idea of what you're looking for, and throw out a number at the top end of the range. If you're talking about a senior software engineer job, and you know that, in your area, they generally pay $120-150k, then say $160k. If you want, condition it based on total comp and benefits. Most Fortune 1000 code janitor jobs will offer a nominal bonus, anywhere between 5-20% of salary. Nothing like the huge FAANG bonus structures. But saying "depending on TC and benefits" gives you some leeway to ask for something even higher later on. And it tells them that, if they can pay you $150k plus a 20% bonus, then you could be happy with that. It leaves the conversation open.

If that makes them walk away, then you didn't want to work there. And don't feel bad negotiating like this even if you're going for a code janitor job. Compensation correlates with negotiating skill more than software engineering skill. It's just the way things are.

Hm. Mostly what I expected then. With one exception: I am in the EU so here $120K a year does not exist. Not even $100K is easily achievable although I've commanded the equivalent of ~$90K a year and will soon work for the same figure.

So I started wondering if I can pivot to the US market -- which was never a goal.

I appreciate your advice. Insecurity and the impostor syndrome can hit even super capable people (I've seen it). Your words help me reassert my self-confidence, and that's sometimes shaky. :)

Retirement, healthcare, and taxes eat up a significant portion of a US earner's pay.

The amount of money that actually gets delivered to a worker's bank account could be a little as 2/3 of their stated salary.

And many things cost more here.

It'd be a good idea to work the numbers and figure out what your take-home pay would be and how your expenses would change. There are some expat websites devoted to this.

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