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Comment by avianlyric | Hacker News Reader

25kph is average cycling speed of a male cyclist, 20kph for female.

The limits there because these devices are just meant to be cycling assistance, not replacements. You don’t want to be mixing two distinct classes of transport together (this is whole reason why protected cycle ways are so important), because overtaking etc is inherently dangerous.

There’s nothing preventing people from just creating electric motorbikes etc and driving them on the road with other road traffic. But having vehicles like that mix in close proximity to pedestrians and un-assisted cyclists just moves the problem we already have with car-bike conflict on to cycle lanes and pedestrian spaces.

Also that extra 5kph is gonna have a pretty negligible impact on transit times, so is it really worth all the extra problems?

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"25kph is average cycling speed of a male cyclist, 20kph for female."

Wait, what? I bike commuted for a while in both Cleveland and Boston. I can pretty handily maintain 30kph, and regularly hit over that when either warranted by traffic conditions or on a slight downhill.

I do not consider myself a fast cyclist by any measure.

I am quite confident that even the most casual group ride of semi serious cyclists would drop me in 5 km on a good day.

Is my view of cycling speeds that skewed, or is the distribution very weird in some way?

As for the extra 5kph making a difference, no it's not a huge deal in time. It's immensely important to riding safely in faster traffic. I find that the closer you can ride to the speed of traffic, the fewer boneheaded things people do to get past you.

Being able to do 40kph for short stretches to basically match the speed of cars through a dodgy intersection is a huge improvement in safety. 30 isn't 40, but every little bit helps.

> Is my view of cycling speeds that skewed

Yes

> It's immensely important to riding safely in faster traffic

This why it’s skewed.

I agree that riding close to the speed of traffic is important. But over here in Europe we have far better cycle infrastructure compared to North America. In many cities you don't ride with normal traffic, so you don’t need to go that fast. Instead your just cycling with with other bikes.

It sounds like you cycle in a fairly hostile area for bikes, so speed is needed just to be safe. Can totally understand why you would do 30kph+, and indeed I do the same in nastier parts of London.

But a consequence of the hostile environment is that you’ll only be cycling with people who have made an active choice to cycle and are more advanced cyclists who are happy to deal with shitty car drivers.

As you move towards proper cycle infrastructure the average cyclist becomes increasingly casual and amateur. Riding not for sport, fitness or to be green. But rather riding because it’s just easier that other public transport options or using a car. Cyclist in this category cycle slower, and more casually. They just wear normal clothes and cycle nice and slow so they don’t get sweaty.

If you wanna see more, I would recommend the YouTube channel “NotJustBikes”. It can be quite eye opening to see a world where everyone cycles because it’s just cheaper, easier and faster than every other option.

I second the recommendation for "NotJustBikes", very eye-opening in regards to city planning and infrastructure

Make that 10-15 kph (6.2-9.3 mph) for 8-16 year old students with all their school books or people in suits on one of these: [0], which is the majority here in the Netherlands. I think you are confusing what Americans know as "cyclists" (a subculture), with just "people on bikes" (our culture), which is most people, at some point during the day. Bike lanes look like this during rush hour: [1]. Silent, broader, 25 kph electric vehicles are much more disturbing in this setting.

[0]: https://www.wheelerz.nl/fietsen/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2...

[1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=druk+fietspad+nederland&hl=e...

Yeah, when I used to bike commute (in the US), I averaged about 10mph (16kph), wearing my work clothes, and not wanting to sweat. US perspective on biking is skewed because in most places, most adult cyclists are sport cycling enthusiasts.

I would say even most of us (I am one) who cycle to commute/get around and not for sport tend to be less casual and ride faster.

Ok then how about a speed limit of 20km/h on bike lanes?

How are you planning to enforce that?

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