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Comment by neartheplain | Hacker News Reader

What are the negative health effects of nicotine versus, for example, caffeine? I've always wondered how much "healthier" vaping really is compared to cigars and cigarettes, but I wouldn't know how to make an evidence-based argument. Googled it a few times with mixed results.

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Pure nicotine seems to be harmless except in overdose, the main side effect being a compulsive need to consume more nicotine. Whether the delivery mechanism in vaping, year after year, is harmless, is a different question. Anecdotally, I used a nicotine vape to quit smoking -- and they're wonderful for that -- but when I quit that as well, my chest went through a phase where it cleared out all manner of gunk not unlike when I quit smoking cigarettes.

> Pure nicotine seems to be harmless except in overdose

I think there’s also some sort of negative cardiovascular symptoms, but I would be unsurprised if caffeine had its own.

Cardiovascular effects of nicotine are probably more dangerous than potential carcinogenic nature of smoking.

edit: smoking is carcinogenic, but how much of it is because of nicotine I wouldn't know; a smoker might not live long enough to find out at what age the cancer develops if he drops dead because of the heart infarct.

I cannot imagine sincerely believing a statement that is so blatantly wrong. Moreover, there’s nothing ‘potentially’ carcinogenic about smoking, it is a known carcinogen.

> Cardiovascular effects of nicotine are probably more dangerous than potential carcinogenic nature of smoking.

Have any evidence to support this novel claim?

This is contrary to everything I have read about the health impact of nicotine. Do you have suitable references to back up these claims?

Smoking is carcinogenic because it involves incomplete combustion of tobacco, the products of which are directly inhaled. Nothing to do with nicotine.

It's hard to separate the impacts of plain nicotine from the impact of cigarettes because the literature is almost entirely focused on smokers, and scientific writing sometimes conflates the two. That said,

> Nicotine constricts blood vessels, including those in the skin and coronary blood vessels, but dilates blood vessels in skeletal muscle. Vasoconstriction of the skin results in reduced skin blood flow and reduced fingertip skin temperature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4958544/

Vessel constriction or dilation by itself is not necessarily a bad thing. CO2 is a potent vasodilator, but no one would claim holding/pacing your breath for swimming is a bad thing. Caffeine too has a strong vasoconstricting effect.

Sure, I was not trying to make the claim that constriction or dilation was a bad thing.

It’s not super helpful for aiding concentration. I tried it for a few months this year in my 30s, thinking it’d help with my ADHD. Never been a smoker. It didn’t help. Also any time I had it on me I’d find myself absentmindedly puffing on it. If you really are into nootropics just be real and get an Adderall prescription.

Dr. Peter Attia has a podcast with detailed medical information on the effects of nicotine.

https://peterattiamd.com/ama23/

I don't know the health effects of pure nicotine (say, in liquid form) vs caffeine, but one is certainly much more addictive than the other.

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#sn2

The vapes don't have the MAOIs, which could also be why my brother didn't find them very satisfying (apart from the THC vapes).

There are "whole tobacco alkaloid" liquids (full-spectrum extract of tobacco vs. pure nicotine) available which contains a lot of the other stuff. Probably more addictive so I'd avoid it if your goal is to quit.

I believe it. There's vapes for everything. Was just focusing on parent's nicotine addictiveness statement that gwern addresses.

> I don't know the health effects of pure nicotine (say, in liquid form) vs caffeine, but one is certainly much more addictive than the other.

Which one did you have in mind, and why do you say certainly?

Nicotine is more addictive than caffeine. I'm not going to find peer-reviewed, double-blind studies to back up my claim. I'm going to go with the anecdotes I've heard for decades and from personal experience.

I'm not going to argue with your opinion -- but I suspect you are conflating tobacco (usually smoked) with nicotine.

Isn't nicotine the primary addictive chemical in cigarettes and vapes

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