Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

Deleting the account shouldn't be a problem if all the "account" info is stored on the device itself, so if your reviewers aren't completely incompetent I don't see why this would be a problem.

There’s a lot of arguments that people will make about whether this is justified or not, but from a plain rules standpoint, that’s not a permissible data management strategy if you want to publish an iOS app through Apple’s store.

The 'account' consists of the credentials required to add or modify data associated with a human.

In that case, the person deleting their private key would suffice for deleting an account.

There are plenty of things this doesn't cover, or even backfires. Just interested in what other perspectives people may have.

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Scuttlebutt actually could allow for 'deletion' in the sense that a 'compliant' scuttlebutt client could choose to interpret a 'delete this account' message as a filter for any messages that match said public key. Many client's UX understand that the state of messages may be incomplete due to the P2P nature, so thats kinda nice too.

Seems like a case where in 2021 this rule is good, but blocks the creation of new business/product/tools that don't confirm with the 2020 way of thinking... which is good for apple.

Putting PII or UGC into immutable storage is poor design, unfortunately, both users and laws want this information destroyable.

But in your case I’m not sure what exactly is the problem other than Apple doesn’t believe you… you can still delete the account it’s just deleted locally.

And you may be required to delete any server side identifiers if such exist.

Can't the app be reset to a state as if it was just installed ?

If such data exists in an app under control of the user, then uninstallation is fine.

If you persist that data in your own systems, you must provide a way to withdraw that consent. Same with data shared with third parties.

If you create an account in first party systems, you must provide a way to delete that account.

If the account is created outside the app (say via your website), thats fine, but you may get the same regulatory pressures directly (from GDPR, from California, etc) to support deletion in the same context.

Honestly if you can subscribe with a button you should be able to unsubscribe with a button.

Alternatively, if the US legal system allows it and you can find a number: Fax. This has the advantage that it can be automated on your end so it's not much more hassle than a quick e-mail, and the delivery receipt (yes, trivially spoofable in theory, but I would assume it's widely accepted in practice) also shows what the content of the message was.

There's probably a startup idea around unsubscribing from difficult companies but legislation and rules in general are likely more effective.

MANY people tie things like password resets to your email, not to you and may not have a retail store presence you can get to for a password reset.

He's telling you - once this email is gone, it is gone and no one, including you will get it again. That is good in the sense that no one can impersonate you, but bad if you have an "ooops" moment and want to do a password reset that needs that email.

Apple's announcement says:

must also allow users to initiate deletion of their account from within the app.

It's only "initiate" deletion, so if we treat that as Step #1, then if Step #2 is, as in the NYT example, to ring support to confirm your intention to delete you account, then this may not deter much user-hostile behavior. It just kind of smears it to a different part of the tablecloth.

It also specifically says 'deletion' rather than cancellation or disablement, but I doubt Apple are going to follow up on this eventual deletion (or alternative watered-down definition) of account past this "initiate" step.

Will users have recourse through Apple if their "initiated" account deletion request goes no further than step #1?

I’d rather it work the way Apple does it than have someone try to recreate a deleted account.

> This requirement applies to all app submissions starting January 31, 2022.

Unsure if this means new apps, or includes updates to existing apps. But I bet there'll be a bit more of a grace period if you don't have a new update to push.

Details were very vague at the time and now we know when it will actually start being enforced, but overall it’s more like half a year notice.

However, in this case, they have ended up giving you 6 months and a courtesy reminder.

If you aren’t interested in maintaining your app annually, don’t publish apps on Apple’s store.

Whether or not their level of notice is enough, they’ve been consistent for years in this practice of 3 months notice for significant and breaking changes, and they seem comfortable compelling annual updates from developers. I would not expect them to care that 3 months is difficult in your circumstances, as they assume you’re prepared to maintain your app and proactively keep up with policy changes over time. It sounds like you did not attend to this year’s policy updates and may well have been out of compliance for months now. Fortunately, they offered a grace period rather than just refusing your next bugfix update. Lucky you!

(I am not sympathetic to your situation, because as a user of apps, I am exhausted of crappy apps and bottom-of-the-barrel behaviors from developers. I understand that others may feel otherwise, and that’s fine too, just as long as those feelings do not get in the way of being a responsive app developer.)

(Android user, can't test it)

Hopefully apple makes a more user-friendly announcement about this that will introduce people of the concept of data retention and how "deleting" an account isn't really deleting anything.

> ...all apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to initiate deletion...

So any third-party client that allows creating an HN account would need to stop. (Are there any?)

Edit: it's only for apps that allow account creation. If you expose the API for account management to third-parties, it would make sense to include account deletion.

The litigation / cases / govt intervention has been on behalf of businesses not consumers. A lot of folks in the "alliance for app fairness" have just horrible billing practices. Understandably, if they can get out of the app store, they can stop you from being able to do things like delete your account or unsubscribe with a few clicks.

A lot of the newspapers make it easy to sign up, but then you have to call to cancel, the same papers that go on and on about how terrible the app store is. There is a REASON people spend fortunes, particularly in the apple app store - it's damn safe to do so in most cases.

In theory Apple sign-in is great. In reality, many apps now show several login options (Google, FB, Apple, e-mail) and I can't remember which one I used.

I've had many instances of trying to login with Apple, the app silently throws an error, and the app won't proceed. E-mail pw reset doesn't work. Did I use Apple Sign-In with my real e-mail or a forwarded (private) e-mail? Apple has made logins more complex and confusing.

Except app developers are mostly small shops and startups. One-person operations.

How would we like it if the web were forced to behave according to some governing body? It feels like some North Korean 1984 dystopia and we've all got explosive collars around our necks.

It's anti-freedom, anti-American, anti-ownership, anti-Stallman. And I own five iPhones and an iMac.

I just want my stupid software on the stupid fucking software execution device. No tap dancing bear rules. No praise to Apple or forced induction to the Church of Jobs.

Steve Jobs made this artificial, ceremonious bullshit to make money. There is no other reason.

I curse history that his authoritarianism won. It's become pervasive throughout the industry now. It should be illegal.

I'll gladly charge 3x the price to Apple users for having to put up with this malarky.

Instructions here (essentially, press "Permanently Delete Account" in settings and put in your password to confirm): https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674

Effort on those requests might recover some users which may be especially valuable if you are a subscription business. If you can't benefit from interaction then immediately imitating deletion from an API seems the only thing that would pass muster.

That said, it's a pretty massive wipe.

Photos, videos, documents, and other content that you stored in iCloud are permanently deleted; you can't receive any messages or calls sent to your account via iMessage, FaceTime, or iCloud Mail; and you can't sign in to or use services such as iCloud, the App Store, iTunes Store, Apple Books, Apple Pay, iMessage, FaceTime, and Find My iPhone. In addition, any Apple Store appointments and AppleCare support cases are canceled.

Deleting your Apple ID is permanent. After your account is deleted, Apple can't reopen or reactivate your account or restore your data.

You lose all your credits with apple (if any) app updates will stop working even for apps already downloaded and more.

"Manage Your Data and Privacy." On the following page, select "Get started" under "Delete your account."

You can also view any collected system analytics in Settings -> Privacy- > Analytics & Improvements. Seems relatively fair to me.

Deleted means removing as much PII as you reasonably have authority to do so. It means purging all that data from all databases with a guarantee that you will be removed completely from all snapshots in a reasonable amount of time.

This should be the default, normal understanding of what it means to delete your account.

It doesn't mean set a flag in a database so when your company gets acquired in a few years your new owner has a nice little trove of data to mine of people that explicitly opted out.

1. Auth tenant. Common sense says that if the auth provider is operated by you, it’s your problem to handle deletions appropriately, either by removing their account or by warning the user that you’re only deleting the specific site account and providing a link to delete the SSO account at your website or whatever. If you do not operate the identity provider, such as Facebook, then you need do nothing about it at deletion time. Apple would likely approve any of those paths without comment, but to defend against rules lawyering and loophole seeking, there’s no way to be perfectly certain until it’s approved.

2. Banking or healthcare app. If you can sign up in-app, you’ll need to let people close/delete in-app, except where prohibited by contract or law. For corporate healthcare, you would pop a dialog that says “This account can only be closed through your employer”, which would be absolutely sufficient. Ditto for a banking account with non-zero balances or a safety deposit box or whatever. It seems likely Apple will not have cause to enforce the deletion clause against brick and mortar banks, since they all have help/faqs on how to close accounts already. App-only banks will be held to the more strict standard of having some way to initiate deletion, being app-only, though of course they’ll retain financial audit records as required by law.

3. Deleted means that all information not essential to compliance with financial and other auditing laws has been removed from your systems. Exceptions are understood to exist for recording that someone requested deletion, but you can’t use those records for marketing or training AI or any other purpose beyond managing your deletions. If you can’t explain in plain simple English how you handle deletions, they’re likely to reject your submission until you can.

All of this is obvious. It isn’t comfortable to consider that you’re at the mercy of human beings to evaluate your compliance — human beings that see a thousand scams a minute trying to hack loopholes in the guidelines. But that’s how it is today.

Basically: App allows account creation => App must allow account deletion.

Where can i read up more on this?

All mobile banking apps that allow signup seem to also allow account closure, so there isn’t exactly a problem there.

If I sign up for insurance in an app, I expect (and Apple will enforce) that I can cancel it in an app. Setting aside certain health insurance scenarios where I have no legal authority to terminate my insurance, I expect that Apple will absolutely start enforcing that insurance account management apps need to have a way to terminate coverage. But I think this isn’t the kind of business they’re concerned about, so they might focus on other business categories first.

Insurance and banks probably aren't affected, since your account is created outside of the app

Maybe because the app itself isn't doing it? I'm not sure what "apps that" vs using the information the app gives you are really different but in technical detail it might be.

  > Apps that compile personal information from any source... without the user’s explicit consent

for example, will they tolerate apps that refuse to function without said consent?

what about an eula and just tapping "ok i read it"?

just my bias maybe, but "free to use" but requiring "user consent" seems like a nice avenue for getting around restriction and rules designed to protect them

This also has nothing to do with unapproved software. The idea that a user can actually delete their data from your servers should not be a controversial topic. But of course it is for businesses and developers, which is why Apple has to make a policy like this.

As a user I am very happy with this.

You're not going to find support in a forum with 60+% Apple users. A lot of these people work for or have stock in this company.

They don't see how this is a roadblock to competition and that this device is now in the critical path of 50+% of commerce. (Maybe they'll care more when they have to compete.)

What apps are left if this is forbidden?

"private data" can mean pretty much any user input. "unrestricted internet access" means pretty much any internet access.

We're left with apps that either cannot accept user input or cannot access the internet at all.