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Comment by bsaul | Hacker News Reader

Looking at this comment section, i wonder how we have gotten to this point : basically any comment gets downvoted by the other side.

This whole crisis has become so political, it's completely absurd. We should be able to quietly talk about what's proven and what's not, what's a safe precaution, what's overkill, etc. without getting too passionate about it..

On a sidenote, I don't know if twitter is a good representative of the public debate in the US, but the level of hysteria on covid has reached an absurd level: obeses american wanting to wear no mask vs psycho-mum wanting to sue the whole world in order to protect their kids...

The most amazing thing about this epidemic could end up being our reactions..

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> crisis has become so political

On the plus side, you know you can relax about the crisis because it’s political and no longer a crisis. We can gather around threads like these and complain (humans are hardwired to focus on the negative) because enoughs unknown and unsettled that’s everybody has a similar level of expertise. There’s a hint of a conspiracy and town-gown divides. It’s perfect for keeping those engagement stats up!

Ironic how it's not only our own bodies destroying themselves due to COVID, but also our society overall...

"Never Let A Good Crisis Go To Waste"

While I agree that this has been overly politicized, I think you're attempting a moral equivalence here that is wrong.

One side is pushing 100% vaccination, which scientists say is the best way to solve this.

The other side is opposing even the most reasonable public health mandates like masking, pushing proven snake-oil like hydroxychloriquine.

> other side is opposing even the most reasonable public health mandates like masking, pushing proven snake-oil like hydroxychloriquine

They is grey area in between these extremes. Religious and medical exemptions to vaccination are widely supported. And most anti-vaxxers aren’t on the hydroxychloroquine train. Within the antivaxxer community, a subset are fine with immunity documentation provided it reflect their natural immunity.

Religious exemption is not widely supported. Many locations do not have religious exemption. And supporting documentation of covid antibodies is creating a massive moral hazard for anti-vaxxers.

Delta is infectious enough that we must assume that every unvaccinated person will get it. Telling people that they will be able to rejoin society after they're vaccinated or they get covid will result in people avoiding vaccination, which means saturating ICUs as those people get covid by happenstance or by deliberate action.

There are people awaiting critical surgeries who cannot get it because of the lack of ICU space.

Triage is a crisis right now in many infected regions Remember, if R is greater than one, and you can expect to get covid as an unvaccinated person, then that means that by staying unvaccinated you are de facto planning on giving somebody covid.

No. There's a third side pushing for the Scandinavian solution. Pro-vaccine, but anti-mandate.

A little while ago, everyone wanted to be like Norway or Denmark or Sweden -- now they pretend these countries don't exist.

Edit: of course I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for opposing the surveillance state. Curse you.

Edit 2: someone below says "The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit people to discriminate based on whether one has those." Private venues setting access rules is incomparable to a surveillance state mandating rules for every person.

"The U.S. won’t jail you if you refuse the vaccine. But you have to stay home. This is functionally identical to the Scandinavian solution, minus public buildings."

I live in Denmark (mods, who are obviously watching me, can verify from my IP) and this is a lie. In Copenhagen today, you can go to stores, malls, museums, anywhere basically without showing a pas. Why don't you shadowban this person for "misinformation" since he is lying?

The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit people to discriminate based on whether one has those.

The U.S. won’t jail you if you refuse the vaccine. But you have to stay home. This is functionally identical to the Scandinavian solution, minus public buildings and minus a federal vaccine certificate.

Are you saying US and Scandinavia are the same but different? The US won’t jail you unless you disobey?

> US won’t jail you unless you disobey?

They’re the same as in nobody is forced to get the vaccine. Nobody will be threatened with state violence for not getting the shot. They’re just barred from a lot of facilities for the choice they made. We do similarly for children whose parents refuse to give them measles shots.

Enforcement, naturally, varies. In Manhattan, I’m constantly asked for card and ID. In Long Island, it never happened.

So you are walking down the street and the cops say “papers please” and you whip them out with the pride of someone protecting the homeland, because you have permission to walk around?

Not sure what you think a shadow-ban is but I can see your comments.

The Scandinavian solution works because of it's highly functional education system. When enough percentage of people have at least a basic comprehension of logic and the scientific method the "surveillance state" as you call it does not need to strong arm common sense in its population.

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