US seeks answers from Tesla over no recall | Hacker News Reader

US seeks answers from Tesla over no recall

sfgate.com

>In a letter to Tesla, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told the electric car maker Tuesday that it must recall vehicles if an over-the-internet update deals with a safety defect.

Why? If a defect can be fixed with a software update over the net, it makes no sense to recall vehicles.

>“Any manufacturer issuing an over-the-air update that mitigates a defect that poses an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety is required to timely file an accompanying recall notice to NHTSA,” the agency said in a letter to Eddie Gates, Tesla’s director of field quality.

The risk in question is really really really low (12 crashes so far, all at least partly user error?). So I don't see how it can be seen as "unreasonable".

> Why? If a defect can be fixed with a software update over the net, it makes no sense to recall vehicles.

Recall means doing the repair for free and (what NHTSA wants in this case) following the recall reporting requirements.

I'm A-Okay with them being required to follow reporting requirements. NHTSA should figure out guidance for doing that for over the air updates, yesterday.

It's been a few years since I filed a recall, but I don't see how OTA changes anything about the process. Start fixing vehicles ASAP, send NHTSA the recall notice, notify owners.

It would be good to see recall laws work nicely in concert with OTA updates. E.g. a recall letter that says "we did an OTA update so no action required but here's the details". Or so that it can work if the OTA doesn't reach some owners.

That's already how it works. If you can fix the vehicles without a shop visit that's fine. You still have to tell NHTSA about the problem and the fix.

Tesla will argue that it’s not a defect, because the software is specifically not designed to handle all situations, only a subset of them, and it does not have the ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle; the driver does. Therefore no filing is required.

Full Self Driving Beta is not Full Self Driving, nor is it claimed to be, no matter what anybody in the government or on HN might think, and drivers are responsible for safely monitoring the situation and intervening when appropriate.

It’s possible the bureaucrats will not quite have what it takes to grasp this subtle logic though.

Subtle logic here is indistinguishable from false advertising.

Tesla doesn’t advertise.

> Tesla doesn’t advertise.

Elon does though

NHTSA should change the name of the term. With more and more vehicles supporting over-the-air updates, using a word like "recall" which implies you have to drive your car to a garage and have them fix it in person is just confusing.

Agreed. Should be “deficiency findings” that document and track mitigations and status of deployment to the fleet (vehicles where deployed, remaining vehicles impacted, etc).

I wonder if Elon Musk will have another distracting "meltdown" on Twitter soon?

He's avoided negative consequences in his previous dealings with the law and government. Has he butted heads with the NHTSA before? Does the NHTSA have more "teeth" than the SEC?

I would love to see him go toe-to-toe with every government entity, when the law does not reflect what is Right or Just. There is too much tyranny and not enough people willing and able to withstand the resulting blowback to take the matter all the way through the courts.

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