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Comment by simorley | Hacker News Reader

It's so strange to see the same people denouncing censorship everywhere celebrating censorship here. I know, I know. Moderation isn't censorship. Moderation is censorship you agree with. Censorship is moderation you disagree with.

Also, there is plenty of flamebait on HN - especially "cultural" flamebait. Some of which the moderators actively participate in. HN seems to be good at keeping certain types of flamebait in check - the national/racial flamebait ( which may or may not be a good thing ).

If people truly took a step back and assessed this post, they'd realize how sad and dystopian it really is. But people don't like to think. An entire post dedicated to praising the censorship of fellow HN poster.

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> plenty of flamebait on HN - especially "cultural" flamebait. Some of which the moderators actively participate in

could you provide a link to an example?

> people don't like to think

solipsistic flamebait, and a universal negative you can’t possibly prove.

I leave showdead on while browsing hn and can tell you that the vast, vast majority of killed comments i’ve read are absolutely vulgar, or at best wildly off topic and really not worth the time it would take each individual to evaluate them, because we all have limited time to spend on hn and the opportunity cost of missing other, better comments or creating one of your own would lead to intellectual bankruptcy in this site. i leave it on because i’m curious about moderation outcomes here and about the entire distribution of thoughts going on in people’s minds (well, at least those people that’ve found their way to hn)… is that not “thinking” enough?

have you considered that a position of “no moderation” is in and of itself a moderation strategy? anarchy can be dystopian, too…

> could you provide a link to an example?

I was going to link to an example but removed it before posting because I'd get in trouble. It's the "chilling effect" of censorship. You probably think I'm lying but actually searched on algolia and got the precise thread/comment. But edited it out because of censorship.

> solipsistic flamebait, and a universal negative you can’t possibly prove.

No. I didn't say only I think. I made a general statement about people. You are reading into things.

> I leave showdead on while browsing hn

So do I. You know, it's not that bad. The world didn't end.

> anarchy can be dystopian, too…

Who is advocating for anarchy? I'm for blocking spam. I'm for giving more power to the community/user. Give users the tool to block content/speech/users they don't like. For example, give users the option to set comment thresholds to view the comments.

> I was going to link to an example but removed it before posting because I'd get in trouble

I sincerely doubt you would, since I asked you for the citation and we're discussing moderation in this thread.

In the absence of this, what is anyone reading your original comment to do with your assertion? Are we supposed to take some random internet person at their word?

If it can be used as an example to discuss further, whether for or against moderation, then I think the community here will be better for it.

Maybe you'll prove yourself wrong, and not be censored.

> I sincerely doubt you would, since I asked you for the citation and we're discussing moderation in this thread.

I will if I get assurances that I will not be penalized.

> In the absence of this, what is anyone reading your original comment to do with your assertion? Are we supposed to take some random internet person at their word?

Yes. Because it's an experience many shared. You've used this forum for a while now. You don't think there is a particular bent here? Noticed a lot of cultural posts that lean a certain way? No?

> Maybe you'll prove yourself wrong, and not be censored.

I was proven right many times already. Seems like you want to get me in trouble.

How about this, in a few weeks or maybe months, I'll get bored of HN and then I'll post it.

It's so funny people think that mods are beyond flamebait. Think about why you would want to be a mod? Especially a "tech/business" forum which is at the forefront of political/cultural issues.

I think that's an interesting perspective, you're right that this is a post praising moderation (a form of censorship.) I don't find it dystopian/thoughtless however, because the outcome of this moderation philosophy is visibly better than the vast majority of other forums I've partaken in. The forums that were better were small, and did not scale as well as HN because moderation is very hard to get right. The better part of HN also isn't seeing more of what I agree with, but seeing different perspectives presented in a way that yield actual discussion.

Moderation is censorship you agree with. Censorship is moderation you disagree with.

Not quite. Moderation works at a place to form its shape. Censorship is total. At the dawn of modern internet it was an issue, because people “lived” at specific places and wanted to discuss all topics. Some places made exceptions, some were strict, some turned to the mode of no rules except legal. Bringing topics that people do not want here is just rude, because either one wants to annoy people or couldn’t find them elsewhere, where they consciously do not visit, for that exact reason. Or they do visit, but behave differently. Figuratively, nobody wants to discuss shit at the dining table, but that doesn’t mean they do not go vent out from time to time. There are enough places full of these discussions, why not enjoy it there? HN is a rare island of calmness, and you can’t take it from people in the name of something already ubiquitous. Without moderation you’ll get fed with it in a couple of months and will go look for another good place to lash its “censorship”, which is the cause of its goodness, and not an issue.

By “you” I mean average users and their usual forum dynamics, not you personally.

Weird. I had to scroll right to the bottom to read this.

Surprised it's not downvoted and flagged. I said something similar and I won't be surprised to see it gone in 5mins.

Flamebait is such a bad word. Flamebait puts the onus on what is bad and good based on the reader's reaction to it.

I reject the thesis of this comment: moderation is not the same as censorship. If I host a private party and eject someone for being unpleasant, I am not practicing censorship. How is moderation on HN (or any other private platform) qualitatively different?

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