Note that TMPRSS2 has been a potential target for treating covid basically since the beginning, so some one lying and claiming it as a mechanism of action isn’t surprising
Note that TMPRSS2 has been a potential target for treating covid basically since the beginning, so some one lying and claiming it as a mechanism of action isn’t surprising
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32251768/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32983936/
you mean they only studied it in a computer simulation?
https://twitter.com/__ice9/status/1368634545717788677
If it works, the OTC nature is important. Hard for any drug to be very effective if the get-an-appointment-see-a-doctor-get-a-prescription-get-it-filled system takes you well past peak viral load before you even start using it.
However, this:
> It also just isn’t the sort of thing there would be incentive to lie about
is not true.
There are two incentives to lie about this, if you are in any way associated with drug or vaccine manufacturers.
1.) Ivermectin is out of patent and dirt cheap; basically not profitable at all
2.) Emergency use authorization for the vaccines relied on there being no available alternative treatment
Again, I have no opinion regarding whether or not ivermectin is remotely useful for COVID. But there are plenty of incentives aimed against any older generic being repurposed.
Again, my argument against you was that you said that there was no motivation against it, and I said that wasn't true.
That's simply so factually wrong it's tough to take it as serious. having a treatment that might lessen the severity of some percentage of the people that get covid has absolutely nothing to do with a prophylactic EUA for a vaccine that is wildly efficacious against mild and severe covid cases and stop you from getting it in the first place. Let's do a thought experiment even if that were true... that would mean the other vaccines that are under an EUA would have been revoked the moment Pfizer got their full approval which didn't happen. This is "there are naval insignias on the flags therefore we are not a constitutional democracy" level of conspiratorial thinking.
> 1.) Ivermectin is out of patent and dirt cheap; basically not profitable at all
that's the reason they threw it at the virus in the first place. They were looking for anything that might help.
Sure, ivermectin is dirt cheap, but that doesn't mean somebody couldn't make a buck off of it. Not to mention that any doctor who actually proved something like that to be effective would be quickly hailed as a hero.
This is the problem with the "Covid Conspiracists"--magically everything is 100% worldwide unified action with perfect lockstep and no deviations--in spite of the fact that many of these countries have primal hatred for one another.
So yes, there are more countries, and many ARE accepting ivermectin for treating COVID. And again, I don't know or care if it works, I'm vaccinated and wouldn't take it, nor am I a conspiracy theorist, your point is just not correct.
Um, exactly? We have millions of scrips issued and still nobody can produce data.
Now, what we can posit is that there is a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the fact that ivermectin is effective OR we can posit that ivermectin doesn't actually work very well for Covid.
The problem with anecdotal medical treatments is that the human organism is highly variable. Just about any disease "treatment" will work for somebody, somewhere. But that's not enough to proclaim that something works. This is going to be especially true in countries where parasitic infestation (which ivermectin does treat) is more common. If a significant fraction of your population got their parasitic infestation cured, their Covid numbers are going to look quite a bit better, too.
If we're trading on anecdotes, then I'll say that ivermectin doesn't work. We had lots of people taking ivermectin at various level in US Red State land. Their hospitals still got overrun. If anything, ivermectin use is correlated with more hospitalization. This is, in fact, a tautology--but not because ivermectin makes Covid worse (or better) but because people were getting poisoned by ivermectin and most ivermectin users were in red state areas which had lower vaccination rates.
This is why you don't believe claims without data.
> And again, I don't know or care if it works, I'm vaccinated and wouldn't take it, nor am I a conspiracy theorist, your point is just not correct.
The problem is that your "I'm just a skeptic" ignores the fact that nobody can cough up any data. Continuing to promulgate things in the absence of data articulates your position quite clearly.
My original argument was against the poster who said that there was no reason to lie about the utility of ivermectin. I said that there was.
In arguing against points that I didn't make, though, you keep making points that I still disagree with. Such as this false dichotomy you keep laying out:
> Now, what we can posit is that there is a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the fact that ivermectin is effective OR we can posit that ivermectin doesn't actually work very well for Covid.
Those aren't the only two options. A third option is that ivermectin does actually have some mechanism of action that has some utility in treating COVID, and that the informal clinical data which continues its usage is because of that. You're acting as if there are formal studies which indicate that it has no utility, but all of the data debunking the utility of ivermectin instead suggests that there is simply not a rigorous study formally demonstrating the utility.
For the third or fourth time, I'm not even saying that I believe that it does have utility. I actually don't care about ivermectin.
> If we're trading on anecdotes, then I'll say that ivermectin doesn't work
I don't remember laying out an anecdote saying that ivermectin does work. An argument was put forth saying that if ivermectin did work, there would be scientists and doctors all over the world studying and using it. I said that there were scientists and doctors all over the world studying and using it. I think it's entirely possible it does nothing and those things could still be true. You're the only one between us who is actually making a claim about the utility of the drug.
> This is why you don't believe claims without data.
I don't know what claim I'm purported to be believing.
I guess you could see what their business plan is?