So ultimately, the meta view on all this is, yes, lets have a conversation. Maybe its a heated one, but lets not "cancel" people while were at it. Let the free-markets determine who should be cancelled.
So ultimately, the meta view on all this is, yes, lets have a conversation. Maybe its a heated one, but lets not "cancel" people while were at it. Let the free-markets determine who should be cancelled.
What would that look like though?
I think there's a somewhat valid conversation to be had about cancel culture, but this point comes up over and over, and I'm constantly wondering: if people criticizing speech in public places like Twitter isn't the free market, and Netflix employees collectively advocating that they don't want to host the speech isn't the free market, and if users boycotting or voting with their wallets isn't the free market, and if advertisers pushing for higher standards on the platforms they're advertising on isn't the free market, and if platform-holders and publishers deciding what content they want to promote isn't the free market, then what is the free market?
When we talk about cancel culture, a lot of the mechanisms of canceling use free market actions; freedom of association, the right to criticize, the right to filter and to share filters with other people, the right to choose how we spend our money and time. And it's valid to look at the free market of speech and say that sometimes it's overly harsh or that it censors the wrong people or that it can be intolerant, but I don't see how it's possible to simultaneously say that the marketplace of ideas is the correct way to sort out good and bad speech, and also that people being mean on Twitter or calling for boycotts is fundamentally the wrong way to tackle conflict.
What do people think the marketplace of ideas is, and how should it act? When the marketplace of ideas deems an idea unpopular or bad, should it still be given equal weight and equal investment and promotion alongside other ideas, even though the marketplace doesn't want it?
That's not how the real economic marketplace works; in the economic marketplace if you can't convince people to buy your product, then your company dies and investors stop giving you money and putting you on store shelves. Nobody says that it's a violation of the free market if people badmouth a company online and stores stop carrying their products as a result. Nobody argues that I'm "canceling" Facebook when I tell people to stop using it, or when I argue that Facebook's future VR products are likely to be bad just by virtue of being made by Facebook.
What's different about the marketplace of ideas? Is it that Netflix has too much power and it's a pseudo-monopoly over entertainment? I can buy that argument for situations like Facebook or the Apple app store, but I don't really buy it for Netflix.
Certainly not through 1000 Netflix employees representing the free-market.
Netflix refuses to carry an awful lot of content. Is it a violation of the free market of speech that they're not streaming everyone else's responses to David Chappelle? I mean, I personally haven't been contacted by them to make a video with them about this debate, does that mean Netflix is censoring my voice and subverting the marketplace of ideas by refusing to stream my videos? The problem is that if we go too far down the road of deciding Netflix is violating the marketplace of ideas by choosing not to host certain ideas on a curated service, we end up with really silly conclusions.
I'd be a bit more charitable to this idea if we were talking about a general platform like Youtube, or if we were talking about a platform with outsized monopoly-levels of control over video content. But it's absurd to say that the marketplace of ideas means Netflix is obligated to pay people to produce content for them and to promote that content; that would be a huge violation of Freedom of Association, and it would just be completely unworkable as a business model.
And if Netflix isn't obligated to pay for and host everyone's content, then who else has more right to have input into what Netflix does host than its employees, owners, and stakeholders?
Consider -- just for a moment -- that you are not Dave Chappelle.
But if you were an entertainer with his appeal and fanbase, then I don't doubt that Netflix would reach out to you to try to sign you to some specials.
In other words, Netflix is not a pez-dispenser of views on political issues. It's an entertainment platform for the entire world. So no, extremist groups within Netflix don't get to stand between Chapelle and his audience, deplatforming him just because they have a job at Netflix.
And who decides what that line is? Netflix, right?
Netflix ultimately gets to decide what its standards are for the content it hosts, that's the only sensible conclusion we can draw. It's the only setup that makes sense in a free market, companies get to choose what products they produce and host.
Similarly, Netflix can look at feedback from its customers and other clients, and it can look at feedback from its workers, and it can take that feedback into account when making decisions. Just like it does for literally every other business decision that it makes.
Yes. And I got news for you -- the rest of the world thinks these Netflix protestors are crazy, power hungry authoritarians. This special is popular, as is Chapelle.
> it can look at feedback from its workers,
In terms of what netflix shows, workers are not more privileged than any other netflix customer, unless they are the ones hired by Netflix to select content. If you want a collective editorialship role, then go to work for a cooperative, or seek a job with that role. But if you accepted a job as release engineer, then no, you don't get to decide which comedians Netflix signs just because you are a release engineer for Netflix. That's something that workers know when they sign on.
Do the workers get to decide whether they work for Netflix?
If, theoretically, they threatened to stop working, would that fall within the bounds of their freedom of association under the 1st Amendment?
They could however form a union first and demand a labor contract in which every Netflix employee has the right to veto content shown on Netflix. Then they could go on strike if the union fails to agree on a contract, saying that this "right to deplatform" is a non-negotiable demand.
That is the equivalent of what is going on here, which should explain why the rest of the world thinks this is a terrible idea. Anyways, good luck with that.
Of course they do. As a worker, I have a right to threaten to quit during a negotiation process. As a consumer, I have a right to threaten to cancel a subscription or stop buying a product. I'm not sure where anyone would get the idea that those kinds of actions aren't allowed in a free market.
> and they certainly don't have a right to strike, not being in a union or even trying to form a union.
I also really don't understand what's meant by "right to strike" here. I'm not aware of any strike laws in the US that ban employees of entertainment companies from striking. Without a union, Netflix workers can't call an official strike, but they can still legally refuse to work, and Netflix can respond as it sees fit.
If they don't have a right to do what they're doing, then Netflix can try pressing legal charges against them or at the least can fire them.
Every other comedian I know is doing fine as well.
Even the "canceled" comedians seem to be doing just fine.
I feel this is a gross generalization, are we talking about CK Lewis or Daphne? What's the line for doing fine, losing a year of gigs, working in another area, not dead, not in a mental institution?
This "cancel" culture is unproductive and pitting people against people for misunderstandings that wouldn't hold water in real life.
Either way, it's also really really dark and disturbing for you to attribute Daphne's suicide to "cancelation".