Comment by the_af | Hacker News Reader

Comment by the_af | Hacker News Reader

I wonder why people find the book Dune difficult?

It's very short and the prose is straightforward. Most "alien" words are real-world words with alternative spellings. There is a glossary, and in any case Lord of the Rings language (English and made up) is way more difficult. The plot of A Game of Thrones is likewise harder to follow than Dune's, with more factions, more intrigue, and mysteries that are still unfolding many books within the series.

There is political intrigue in Dune ("plots within plots within plots") but it's often explained out loud or with inner monologue by the main characters. The Baron Harkonnen explains very early his plot; a deeper conspiracy is soon explained by other characters. The religion and manipulation of the Bene Gesserit is explained very clearly by Jessica. There are almost no "long" mysteries that are not explained close to their introduction.

The book also wears its real-world influences on its sleeves.

So the plot is not particularly convoluted, the prose is straightforward and the made up words have real equivalents (mostly).

So why do people find it difficult?

I'll preface that I really did enjoy Dune, because what I'm going to say about the book will come off as negative.

The first third of the book reads like an encyclopedia article with a slow moving plot tacked onto the side, and since most of the information and the intrigue is laid out so plainly, the reader is left in a state of passive consumption. The last two thirds are entirely okay. The narrative is interesting in the abstract, but it won't keep you on the edge of your seat when you're reading it. This is where most people break off.

Dune is difficult not because the text is complex or challenging, but because it's a slog. Like reading a history textbook conveyed through character's internal monologues, and passable pros. It's an exceptional piece of world-building, and a SciFi landmark. But it doesn't challenge you to guess what's next, and tension in the book is diffused by the book's tone.

When someone goes to read Dune, I'm rarely surprised to find that they've either given up, or realized in retrospect that they would have been better served spending an evening perusing the series' wiki.

Except I don't think it's difficult, I actually agree with your second to last paragraph. Dune's prose is simple to the point of being uninteresting; the inner monologues are an overused trick; there are very few mysteries that aren't explained almost as soon as introduced, so there's little tension. And you know from the get-go that Paul's hero journey will succeed. The Digital Antiquarian makes an interesting point that Herbert's actual message -- that messianic heroes are bad for mankind -- gets lost by the fact Paul succeeds in Dune with little negative repercussions; it's only in the following books (much less read than Dune!) that the terrible consequences unfold.

(Like you, I really like Dune. I'm agreeing with your points.)

Maybe I am alone in this, but a book that 'reads like an encyclopedia article with a slow moving plot tacked onto the side' sounds amazing to me. I am unashamedly fond of the book and I feel like it is perfectly framed and paced. I also put Tolkien's The Silmarillion as my favorite Middle-Earth material.

But even with my admitted love of the material and the particular style and presentation of Dune, I think the story of Dune (and the rest of Herbert's Dune works) is well told and captivating for people who like more traditional narratives as well.

As a follow-on thought, I might be more correct in saying I enjoy 'post-structural' stories, since Steven Erikson's Malazan novels are often at the top of my personal GOAT lists.

This is essentially the same reason many people don't like Tolkien. If you don't enjoy world-building for the sake of world-building, you're in for a bad time

Agreed, though the world of Tolkien is a way deeper rabbit hole than Dune's. It's more detailed, more thought of, the backstory actually exists written down and it goes back millenia, some of its constructed languages you can actually speak in, whereas most of the backstory of Dune is only hinted at. Forgetting the non-canon and widely repudiated attempts by Herbert's son, that is.

Yet Lord of the Rings often tops the list of books (fiction) readers prefer!

I think LotR used to be obscure as Dune is nowadays, or maybe even more, and at some point it sprung into the mainstream and it hasn't left since. Peter Jackson helped tremendously, but I think the surge in popularity happened even before that. Everybody knows about Elves (and the fact they are spelled "Elves" and not "Elfs") and Hobbits, but not as many people know about Arrakis, Fremen and Harkonnen.

For me its just that you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens. I struggle with books that want me to learn about insert alien history before telling me why i need to care about this specific alien race.

But I'm going to read the book now. Normally having a visual to put to the words helps me get through that stuff.

> you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens

I'm re-reading the novel right now and there really isn't that much world-building. It's a slow burn (in a very short novel), but akin to the set up to the drama in, say, Hamlet; characters making their moves and preparing their traps, and it bears fruit in the second half.

The world building is way less complex than Lord of the Ring or A Game of Thrones. I know people also complain about those, but they are also wildly successful novels so they must be doing something right. Way less obscure than Dune, in any case.

You asked why people find it difficult to pick up them dismissed the reason I gave... Your experience is not universal.

I'm not dismissing your opinion. I understand a lot of people share it, otherwise they wouldn't find Dune a difficult book.

I'm just puzzled because it doesn't match my own experience.

Same for me. I've always had a hard time reading sci-fi because of all that, especially everyone and everything having impossible to pronounce names.

I started reading it a few months ago. Linus Torvalds mentioned that he often rereads it in some interview, and I was looking for a new book to start so I went with that. I was unaware there was an existing movie or a new one coming out. It was a rough start, I gave up on it a few times but ultimatley kept with it. The timing was perfect. I ended up getting to the part just before where the movie ends so when I watched it, the book was fresh in my mind and the ideas and character traits that are only hinted at in the movie were clear to me, and I got to experience a bit of the story for the first time through the movie.

Theres a lot going on in Dune, not all of it is explained up front. Its the kind of book where earlier parts make more sense later because theres not a crazy amount of exposition explaining things and how the world works, and theres a lot to digest. The movie ends up being kind of worse in this regard for people new to Dune

I actually like my share of scifi books. I love the hyperion series, a fire upon the deep, lots of books written by Isaac Asimov, and other books, but I really struggled with Dune. I think the prose just bored me.

The being said, I really enjoyed the movie.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I find Hyperion almost impenetrable -- not the prose, but the fact the plot is not resolved in the first book, that I'm not familiar with Keats, that it's really slow paced with little to no action, and that as the book series goes on it becomes more and more disjointed.

It may surprise you to learn I actually like and recommend Hyperion! I like its Canterbury Tales vibe. But I find it harder than Dune, and I really dislike the follow up novels.

A Fire Upon The Deep is my super fave-rave SF book.

It would be really difficult to film - as is Dune. I haven't seen the new movie, but two producers have screwed it up. I think a movie of AFUTD would be a guaranteed money-loser.

Many find it to be a long boring slog of a book.

They get frustrated with its jargon and made up words. They don't find the story captivating. And they find the writing style pretentious, antiquated, hard to read.

> They get frustrated with its jargon and made up words. They don't find the story captivating. And they find the writing style pretentious, antiquated, hard to read.

This is what I felt when I tried to read it years ago.

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