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Comment by modriano | Hacker News Reader

> ...two of rock music’s greatest songs...

I don't often pay close attention to the lyrics in songs, but after hearing the Rolling Stones were pulling "Brown Sugar" from their set list [0] because of it's offensive lyrics, I read through the lyrics [1] and I was shocked to find that the song is about raping a young slave girl. I was shocked; the tone of the song is so incongruous with the horror of the crimes described in the lyrics.

So, let's not call "Brown Sugar" one of rock music's greatest songs. Without the lyrics, it's a great bit of music, but it's completely tarnished by the lyrics.

[0] https://people.com/music/rolling-stones-retire-brown-sugar-l... [1] https://genius.com/The-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-lyrics

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Technically only the first verse.

And overall, it is about sex with black women, in a general sense. Two of Mick's black girlfriends each claim it is about them. I'd say the first verse is sort of a twisted sex fantasy. (and not just men indulge in rape fantasy/roleplay stuff)

Obviously, Mick can relate to the slave trader in the first verse, in the sense that he had so many women who would let him do as he pleased with them, with zero regard for their enjoyment. I'm not saying he behaved that way, but he certainly could have, every day if he wanted to.

Not really defending it, it's pretty awful to listen to. It certainly has an iconic guitar riff.

I listen to music in the same way as comedy. It's often not clear whether it's criticizing an idea, reinforcing it, mocking it, glorifying it, or something else, or a combination.

Good lyrics or jokes make you think. They don't tell you what to think.

Surely, a lot of rap music would fall afoul of a moral filter pretty quickly if taken sincerely. Not sure why we'd apply a different standard to rock music written back when rock was more radical.

I don't know, "Brown Sugar" kind of seems incoherent. The tone absolutely doesn't fit with the content of the lyrics (which don't inspire thought, by the way). It's just not a great song.

If, in 50 years, you see me claiming some incoherent rap song with tasteless lyrics is one of the greatest rap songs of all time, you have my permission to call me a hypocrite.

Greatness can't be arbitrarily taken away post facto. It must fade at its own pace.

"Brown Sugar" is one of rock music's greatest songs

I guess if your list is long enough, any song can be one of the greatest, but it starts to feel strained past 25th (eg "what's the 38th greatest meal you've ever had?"), and I could list 50 greater rock songs (than "Brown Sugar") just from the Beatles, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones, Queen, the Kinks, the Who, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, and Clapton off the top of my head.

Wow. Reading the lyrics is an intense experience. How could anyone ever have listened to that and not realised? I’ve never heard the song myself.

To be fair it's quite difficult to make out the words when listening to the song. I must have heard it dozens of times and somehow I got the idea that "brown sugar" must have been some American slang I just didn't know for some drug, because I couldn't tell the words apart.

Reading the lyrics now is... wow it's something.

Yet somehow, it was OK for 50+ years.

The lyrics have often been brought up as bad.

Jagger was 26 years old in Alabama making light of almost every serious issue of the time. Thats really not that absurd or different than what “okurrs” now. A reference to Cardi B’s chart topping songs about personally being a scamming sex worker and general misandry. The people have always had the power to create consequences and simply did not on these topics, and now do so arbitrarily on some predictable topics.

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