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lampe3

Why do people keep looking at Israel... It's not even near to any meaningful % of vaccination...

We have several countries with higher rates https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Also in Germany for example 90% of the covid people in hospitals are fully unvaccinated people.

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What about Singapore? So high vaccination rate, but even with such high rate, cases started to climb:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore

And it will climb even higher:

The city-state’s Ministry of Health reported last month that about 100,000 people aged 60 and above were yet to be vaccinated despite having been in the priority category.

There was a new daily high of 18 deaths in Singapore on Wednesday - as well as a near record 3862 new cases - and the unvaccinated elderly accounted for more than two-thirds of patients who had passed away from the virus or were in the ICU, Health Minister and fellow taskforce co-chair Ong Ye Kung said.

“For the unvaccinated seniors in their 60s, our data shows one in four will require oxygen, ICU care or will succumb,” he said.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/singapore-s-recovery-stall...

> one in four will require oxygen, ICU care or will succumb,

Note how this is deliberately constructed to scare the bejesus out of people. It's like saying "one in four will pick their nose, have explosive diarrhea, or blow their head off with a shotgun". If you don't read carefully enough, which most people don't, you'll be misled into thinking a bunch of people are about to die (rather than ruin their porcelain throne for the day), but they have plausible deniability. "We just didn't phrase it quite right". This does not improve public trust in vaccines _at all_.

Do we need folks 60+ to voluntarily vaccinate? Yes. No doubt about it. But _this is not the way_ to achieve that goal. Transparency and persuasion is how you do it, not verbal tricks like that.

Singapore has about 1650 isolation beds and 200 ICU places. 25000 people older than 60 (1 in 4 figure from the article) can easily overwhelm this capacity.

Even if that math works, we've been dealing with this for nearly 2 years, and it was clear right from the start the disease would end up endemic. Surely that's enough time to build capacity, or at least procure temporary capacity in neighboring countries? It's not like you need a ton of expensive equipment to care for a COVID patient. It's not a tumah.

When a person can no longer survive breathing on their own, the anesthesiologist is called on to intubate them. After that you have the anesthesiologists monitoring all intubated patients. There is no surplus of anesthesiologists anywhere.

In Flanders, 70% of people in hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. What do we make of that contrast ?

Flanders has only 20% unvaccinated people, Germany has 34%, that already 75% more. If you subtract children on both sides, that leaves a lot more unvaccinated Germans to be infected, easily in the 2x to 3x range.

> Also in Germany for example 90% of the covid people in hospitals are fully unvaccinated people.

You'd do well providing some data for this quip. I've spent 10 minutes searching and could not find a confirmation. It's just the generic "hospitals are overwhelmed" BS. At least it's BS in the United States (which has a much higher case load), where you can see whether hospitals are overwhelmed or not (and yes, they are not), right on HHSs own website: https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

Couldn't find national numbers, just lots of regional queries with hospitals:

https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/corona-k... (2011-11-05) covers Eastern Germany: 2/3 of covid19 patients not vaccinated at all, 3/4 not fully vaccinated (== 2 shots, or 1 shot in case of J&J)

https://www.hamburg.de/nachrichten-hamburg/15579956/corona-p... (2021-11-06) Hamburg: 205 of 240 (== 85.4%) ICU covid19 patients unvaccinated, 5% not fully vaccinated, 9.6% fully vaccinated

https://klinikum-darmstadt.de/aktuelles-news/ungeimpfte-coro... Darmstadt (2021-09-21): "nearly exclusively unvaccinated" ICU covid19 patients. 50% of ICU capacity is filled with covid19 patients.

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/corona-fast-nur-ungeimp... Munich (2021-10-02): One hospital was at 100% unvaccinated covid19 patients (that's the twitter screenshot from 2021-09-28). They asked the other hospitals: 5 + 1 and 10 + 2 of unvaccinated + "vaccinated but couldn't build resistance for some reason". Further away in the region 100% unvaccinated (ICU and "regular" covid19 treatment)

So I haven't found national numbers but lots of regional ones, and while there are a few counts lower (at 2/3 and 85%), there were also hospitals with entirely unvaccinated covid19 populations, both on ICU and in regular care.

[edit to add:] Found an article about nation wide numbers and it covers the 90%: https://www.rnd.de/gesundheit/corona-intensivpatienten-rund-...

Title: About 90% of covid19 ICU patients not vaccinated.

The bullet points state: In August and September, about 1/10 of covid19 ICU patients were fully vaccinated. Those were often people with an impaired immune system, e.g. due to chemotherapy.

The numbers were (assembled and) released by the federal health office on request of a member of Parliament.

So 90% number is not supported. If primary occupants of the ICU are immunocompromised people, why the fuck are governments not prioritizing _them_ and instead wasting vaccine doses on young people and children who, if healthy, are not at risk at all? Even though Germany has done relatively well compared to other countries, the response still seems to make zero sense there. Blanket mandate is not needed. Raw vaccination rates are utterly meaningless without seeing details wrt age and comorbidities, or figuing out who ends up in the ICU, and targeting those kinds of people for vaccination. Why, 2 years in, such obvious things are so hard for the governments to figure out? Is it because most people in the government are lawyers and not engineers?

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