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I roughly agree but I think your point presumes that is easier to have friends outside of work. It's a yes/no heavily dependent on your circumstances.

I grew up and went to college in Massachusetts, and now live in NYC metro area. Many of the folks I count as part of my good friends or even best friends aren't nearby. So my friendships with them rely heavily on group texts, and infrequent in-person gatherings.

But like lots of folks here, I worked a LOT during my 20s/earlier 30s and spent a lot of time in the office with coworkers, and subsequently a lot outside the office with coworkers. Four of my colleagues from the company I worked at from age 23-29 were groomsmen in my wedding. Two of those folks live in NYC metro with me. We're still very close. Work/industry-related conversation isn't exhausting with them because they're some of the smartest folks I know (again: in the same industry).

I sometimes find friendships outside of this context exhausting. Some people don't have interesting lives or careers or both! Work provides a logical conduit to establish a friendship or quickly decide if someone won't be a friend.

I've ended up with kind of a middle ground: A good number of my friends are ex-coworkers. We wouldn't consider each other as friends when we were there, for various good reasons, but as ex-employees, you share the bond that you all "survived that mess."

I believe it is good to build up a strong socialization fabric, woven out of people who you don't spend all working-day with. We have a "neighborhood dads" group that cuts across professions but tend to have age in common. You can have a hobby group that cuts across all kinds of demographic and political views, but is focused on a single activity. If I lose or quit my job, I don't also suddenly lose daily contact with my friends. If your only friends are workmates, that's more of a single string that can snap rather than a strong woven fabric.

I can definitely relate to being closer to former colleagues on the other side of us both working at the same company/division/team/whatever. I think it's maybe that thing like when you run into someone you went to camp or high school or whatever with in a foreign city— even if you weren't that close at the time, it's a jumping off point for bypassing that flirtatious pre-friendship stage where you don't actually talk about much of anything, and get right to the good stuff (and no, not just talking about romantic relationships; a lot of friendships start this way too, and many never leave it).

Counterpoint: I have made some of my best friends through work.

None of us work at the same company, but the friendship endured 15 years.

If you are on your mid 20s, my advice is to make as many friends as you can and experience as many things as you can.

Start working hard for your career and promotions only on your late 20s.

My other advice: Don’t take work personal. Just think it as long term contract (2-3-4 years) which eventually will end. Don’t fret or worry too much about the management’s decisions. It is something you can’t control. If a work place is becoming not friendly and more toxic, feel free to detach and go to a place that fits you better. People they get involved too much emotionally to a job have harder time with this.

Being professional means you are there to get a job done (and not for validation), and don’t make work the center of your life. That doesn’t mean that you can’t make friend there.

I've always thought this too, however in practice it seems difficult to implement. I have friends from childhood that I visit, but they don't live near me. As someone who isn't dating, most of my opportunities to speak with new people come from work.

I live with 9 people: One is a musician, one is in politics, one works with Greenland tourism, one is a therapist, and so on it goes. It's been very giving to have so many different approaches around me. I hope I'll be able to continue it once I get children.

I concur with this view. I did my PhD in an "Oxbridge" college, and one of the best parts of that was being able to spend time out of work with smart people who were not in my own field. They might be historians, economists, chemists, artists, architects, etc, etc. But all accomplished to some extent in their own fields.

This is precisely what I’m finding now in the same situation. My fear is continuing to make new relationships outside the college environment later (and maintaining current circles)

I always have a weird conversation with co-workers when they want happy hours and other events after work. I have to tell them point blank, I’d rather spend time with my kids or wife than them.

I can’t stand events even during the day, though I get it. I’d still rather be with my family or friends outside of work 100% of the time.

That said, I get along with my co-workers and we have great fun on trips and what not. But the goal is still making a living so I can enjoy time with my family.

When my kids are old enough, I also intend them to attend and learn what I do. When I was a kid my parents taught me everything about their work. It was exceedingly valuable. I think a lot of the corporate culture today has really been detrimental to children.

I have a few people that I keep up with outside work, but for me there's a couple of things I've learned the hard way, and one thing that I learned watching my parents' generation learn the hard way.

I'm pushing 50, so my parents are boomers. While they had a much easier ride than their children and grandchildren in many ways, one thing that buggered a lot of them in the 80s was that the idea of long-term employment was brutally ripped away. People who had worked at the same firm for 20 or 30 years were unceremoniously dumped out of work by Chainsaw Al Dunlap inspired gutting of companies; many of those people had their personal relationships revolve around work as well as their professional life, and were kicked in the guts twice by the process, losing their social circle at the same time as the upheval of their financial lives. Being dependent on your employer for your social circle, your income, and your professional development is a terrible thing.

Secondly, personally, if I hang out with people I work with, I have a hard time talking about stuff that's not work. It's not healthy for me, and probably tedious for them (unless they suffer from the same problem). We need to breathe. Rehashing the working day in your evenings and weekends is not a way to decompress. Others may be different, but I am happier if I spend my evening talking about, say, the points in common of Villneuve's Duke Leto and Cornwell's Arthur, rather than which person is being an annoying arsehole.

> Others may be different, but I am happier if I spend my evening talking about, say, the points in common of Villneuve's Duke Leto and Cornwell's Arthur, rather than which person is being an annoying arsehole.

In my experience doing other activities (golfing, 5 a side football, painting miniatures, a book club, whatever) is a great way to avoid that problem.

It was like this for me in the hacker scene. I wanted to learn about security, but I didn't want to be around toxic people all the time. But at work, the people I hang out with outside the office don't talk about tech or work, because we hang out to pursue our other interests: music, climbing, auto racing. I'm probably the only one bringing up work outside of work...

The tone of your post is quite scary

hell yea, yes it's pretty healthly to have work-life balance

think about this:

you probably spent years at college/uni being sorrounded by nerds, then at work place 8h/day everyday,

then probably on the internet - hackernews, so what left? your SO being coder too? your friends working in IT too?

there's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid burnout.

I think of this distinction between "culture affiliations" and "hunting pack" .. some people really do focus on the hunting side, which is hard for people who do not, to understand even when it is right in front of them.. as a culture person, I also did as this poster did, and that only goes so far.. your life changes with the decades

To add to that the average tenure in the industry is what like less than 2 years? Are you expected to renew your entire social circle every year or so? Sounds like miserable existence…

I'm curious how regional that is. Back when I was just doing software 2-3 years seemed normal, now in a more industrial setting it's more like 5-7 years. It's interesting though how it seems to jump from 'normal tenure' to 'lifers' wherever I go, there's always a few who've been around 20+ years.