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> And this is the best we currently have,

Haha, no... have you heard of Lisp?

Haha, are you new around here?

I have certainly heard about Lisp, in fact, many haven't heard about Allegro Common Lisp or Lisp Works, the only ones that matter, which the FOSS usually ignores.

This doesn't change the fact that sadly Lisp and Smalltalk are almost nowhere to be seen in 2021 (in large deployments).

Clojure is most certainly on par or exceeds both in business use.

On par with Allegro and Lisp Works it isn't certainly not.

What are the innovations brought by Allegro and Lisp Works, relative to Clojure? Just asking as I haven't heard about those, I only have experience with Clj.

A proper development experience like in the Lisp Machines, the whole stack is Lisp, compilation to native code AOT/JIT.

As Guy Steele puts it, Java is half-way to Lisp, even if you put Clojure on top, it isn't the same deal as 100% Lisp.

Agreed, Clojure very likely exceeds them combined in active business use.

Moving goal posts, the point is tooling and dev experience.

Exceeding the common lisps in number of users is easy. Exceeding them in language capabilities is not.

How is Clojure relevant for the topic of fully interactive development? Unlike Smalltalk or Common Lisp, it doesn't even attempt it.

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