Comment by mrb | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mrb | Hacker News Reader

«it’s now obvious that use of bitcoin (and related blockchains) for payments is almost entirely scams and illegal stuff»

It is neither obvious, nor is there any data that suggests that is the case for Bitcoin. I suspect people who hold this opinion form it passively while reading the occasional flashy news headlines "Drug lord used Bitcoin!" and don't actually do any research. After all, news reporters write about what drives readership, and "Grocery merchant used Bitcoin" just doesn't quite get the same engagement.

There are very few research papers that conclude a large percentage of Bitcoin's transaction is tied to illegal activity, for example [1] claims 46%. However they are fatally flawed: they fail to consider the amplifying effect of mixers/tumblers that, by design, create thousands of automated mixing transactions per original transaction. So 1 illegal transaction will look like 1000 transactions in their analysis... facepalm

[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3102645

If only demanding evidence of crimes would magically materialize said evidence. It is hidden by design, that's why it's used for illegal stuff on the first place, and why it wasn't banned yet (who needs to hide money more than politicians?).

It's pretty obvious by the lack of legitimate activity. Nobody's buying pizzas for bitcoins. It's all about speculation and hiding your money from taxes.

>Nobody's buying pizzas for bitcoins.

Couldn't I buy a pizza with Bitcoin in El Salvador?

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3738724-mcdonalds-starbucks-pi...

The Goverment is no longer promoting Chivo. The platform is allegedly cold now. People who originally installed it for the $30 sign up bonus (which is hefty) retired.

Your link is from September.

I am not going into the problems with the platform as I am not physically there. But this iteration of the project didn't take off. The government still invests in Bitcoin, which is another issue.

Interesting, I hadn't heard Chivo was no longer active. I can't seem to find any reference to it being cold, though like you say it's difficult to get perspective not being boots on the ground. The most recent article I can find is this one from last week that seems to indicate it's still active, though it could be out of date.

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/bitcoin-el-salvador-prote...

Chivo is active. What I wanted to say is the Goverment had cooled down the promotion of the platform. Advertising in private and public spaces, that is. My opinion is Nayib Bukele will keep chivo as a business partner.

This article from a week ago states that the goverment is paying a cashback of a $0.30 per gallon of gasoline if you pay with Chivo.

https://m-elsalvador-com.translate.goog/noticias/negocios/ch...

Wasn't the first bitcoin transaction actually for a pizza?

one of the first public purchases of legal real world things, yes.

Between Something Awful forum members where most of us went “huh, novel, whatever” and didn’t get wrapped up in it.

Honest queation:

Why a bitcoin user would want to use a mixer/tumbler, if not for some reasons there is the need to make less traceable the bitcoins?

Or if you prefer, what is the purpose of mixers/tumblers and why some people use them?

Privacy. You probably don't want every person who you send a transaction to, to know how much money you have on your "account".

You've created a straw man. Author said use of bitcoins for "payments" while you've broadened that to all "transactions" on the blockchain. These are not the same thing.

It isn't entirely a straw man as the argument applies equally well for all transactions and payments alone.

Where is the evidence that BTC payments are mostly scams or otherwise illegal?

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