Comment by olalonde | Hacker News Reader

Comment by olalonde | Hacker News Reader

I used to be skeptical about those claims that beauty could help you out (in a significant way) professionally, since I had never experienced it myself. I'm not sure how I rank, beauty-wise, but I'm definitely not in the top 1%... in North America (Montreal).

However, things changed when I moved to China. Chinese people tend to like tall, light skin, light hair, light eyes, big eyes guys (i.e.: me). I'm probably in the top 1% in China, if not more (I'm not bragging, ask any decent looking guy who's been there that matches the description). I believe my newly found handsomeness opened me up to multiple opportunities. Here's two examples (among many others).

One time, in Starbucks, a CEO from a Hong Kong private equity firm started talking to me. After some chat, he knew I was the ideal candidate for this big software project he had in mind. Anecdote: He was reckless enough to use my computer to login onto his business email account. Hell, he probably didn't even notice I was running Ubuntu.

Another time, I met a guy in a bar. He started serving me drinks as he noticed I was attracting pretty girls around the table. He told me that he owned multiple consumer electronics stores in China. A few days later, he was calling me to discuss the possibility of me opening up and managing a new store for him in Hong Kong.

I like to think that "knowing I was handsome" gave me a lot of confidence which is what really helped me out. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself...

It's very funny how relative the concept of sex appeal is between different cultures.

One of the key few moments in my life was when an old Chinese woman who was a coworker of mine at the time told me: you are smart, know math, and are good looking; you shouldn't work here; you should work on Wall Street. I rarely before thought of myself a good looking, being thin, pale, light-haired and not conforming to the traditional wide-shoulder, tall-dark-and-handsome masculine ideal we have here in the West. For better or worse, her comment certainly increased my ambition...

a chinese friend of mine said she got an acceptance at MIT, a position at chase manhattan bank, because he is in 1% among americans for being slim and fit only.

There are lots of thin Chinese finance nerds from MIT, what's so unique about that?

You have a plastic that states first class country living rights to any woman that get's you. Living in China for some time you didn't realise the "attractiveness" of that? I tell you something. I saw a 50 year old, objectively ugly, stupid US guy in Hangzhou who most people wouldn't waste a 'hi' on. But Chinese girls were running after him, telling him how attractive he was. You still think you are so handsome because Chinese girls tell you?

I mean, what should they say? "Marry me, because then I can live in Meiguo." (for them it's not a big difference) Also I can't blame them to want to improve their living conditions. Their live really sucks and it seems (not sure, was there just for one year) that life really is harder for women there, then for men. Don't be naive. At least know what really makes you attractive, over there.

What you said is definitely an important piece to note. But I think the OP's finding is relevant too.

I was born and raised in China, and I get way better reception when talking to women in China than I do in Canada or the States.

Coincidentally, I fit in the category of skinny, light skin and big eyes.

It is true that skinny, light skin and big eyes also have a different value in China. But it still is hard to get sufficient data to support that one of these is a factor for women who meet u. If you look "american", that alone might be enough. Also if you find another country where other values apply. I don't know for sure, but let's take a country in Africa. I guess (but don't know!) that more masculine, strong and dark skinned men are better looking there. The average North American or European guy will still have more success there, then in his home country, because he still has "plastic" and money value, that is a lot higher then for most black man. Even a Chinese man (who sometimes feels treated badly by western girls) will have a lot of success in Africa, beause the Chinese financial and living standards are higher then in many African countries (also don't have any data to prove that "most" really applys). And also in his own country a Chinese male will have better chances with women, because there he works on an equal level, while he really has a disadvantage in Europe and North America.

To make a long story short: I don't think "I get more girls in this country or in that." can be a good model to compare the beauty values of women or bosses, because other factors are more important.

Does it matter really what makes him attractive?

Most of the time it probably doesn't matter. But it can never hurt to know more about the important women in ur life, doesn't it? Also think about the following example: You feel that something between you and your girlfriend is off. So you want to do something to increase her happiness. If she is with you because you are so hot, you might dress better and invite her to some clubs to have fun together. But if she is into you because she thinks you will support her well, showing her your commitment might be way more important. Doing the one or the other both can be good or not. But which might safe your relationship depends on why she is attracted to you.

I used to think that as well and it's totally true with most Chinese women (especially in poorer areas). However, I live in one of the most expensive city in China (Shenzhen) and I've met many women that were much richer than me, who have absolutely no intention of moving to cold Canada. At 8$/beer, the bars I frequent usually attract an upper class crowd (or women who have someone to pay for them).

Also, your theory doesn't hold in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is richer than where I come from and poorer women have a vast pool of rich men to choose from.

Not to rain on your parade, but in these cases it's hard to make a convincing separation between your looks per se and the cachet in Chine of having a Westerner working for you.

His point is that he looks stereotypically Western and therefore is considered more attractive than most Chinese natives or Asians generally by Asians and the Chinese themselves. He's making no claims about how attractive he actually is, but that he has first hand knowledge of the difference between being perceived as nothing too special in the looks dept. and being perceived as probably in the top 1% of good looking people in a certain culture.

I can attest to this as well. I lived in Korea for a good while, and let me tell you, it doesn't get any better than being a white blond, blue eyed male or female of any sort (as long as not gay or fat) in SE Asia, and from what I hear, basically every other part as well. We be some sexy, foreign beasts. And I, too, am just an otherwise average looking guy.

The GP's point is how do you know it's the "stereotypically Western looks" and not just the fact he's Western? Unless you claim that all Westerners look attractive to Asians (in which case there's no practical point in separating ethnicity from looks), the question to ask is how non-attractive Westerners are perceived.

You know, it's weird. Some of my Western friends in China would be considered much more handsome than me by Western standards. Yet, Asians seem to consider me more handsome than them. Just like I sometimes consider a Chinese girl to be very pretty and yet, my Chinese friends consider her so-so [1]. The point of my story wasn't to "parade" (that would be silly on HN) but just to communicate my personal experience.

To go back to your point, the Western look definitely helps in China, regardless of beauty. Many businesses want to hire Westerners to project an international image. That being said, I think my luck had more to do with my perceived handsomeness than my Western look. I know, this doesn't sound terribly humble, but like I said, I'm not amazingly handsome by North American standards.

Also, to clarify, I'm not taking a moral/ethic position on the subject, just communicating my personal experience.

[1] http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=707742

If the OP were being asked out on a date, I could say with 99% condfidence it was because of his looks. If he's getting job offers, from presumably (just going with the odds) heterosexual men, then I strongly suspect there are other factors at play besides just how he looks, regardless of the ethnicity of the person perceiving those looks.

You'd be surprised, I think, just how much looking (and being?) stereotypically Western is considered a PR advantage in many Asian countries. There is a practice, for instance, of hiring Western males to attend business meetings not for any reason related to that person's business acumen, but because it looks very good for a company if you've got a white English speaking male in attendance.

I like to think that "knowing I was handsome" gave me a lot of confidence which is what really helped me out. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself...

It's really messed up, not being able to have an objective appreciation of one's looks (even relative to the given culture.

If enough people ask if you're a model, or an actor, or mention to friends how good-looking your are I supposed theta should enough evidence that at least some people think you're good-looking. But being over-familiar with one's looks tends to make one skeptical, plus many cultures train people to not be vain, which often in practice becomes "think poorly of yourself."

Over-familiar is a big "problem" in appreciating beauty, no matter how beautiful a face is, if you look at it every day, it will eventually become about average.

I've found that people I've come to know and like get better looking.

I think you are just being humble. Your blog's profile pic isn't bad. Having said that, the local girls are probably into you for a combination of 3 reasons: 1. you are good looking 2. you are different looking and 3. you may have money

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