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Comment by gh0std3v | Hacker News Reader

> It sounds like you should find a company that agrees with this opinion. I don’t agree.

I agree that on-call is necessary in certain professions (e.g, doctors). I also agree that if an employee is willing to do on-call and they are compensated accordingly, then the practice is still ethical.

However, to call someone to do work outside work hours is unreasonable. On-call is considered work time, so I am expecting to be contacted during that time. However, if I'm not on-call, then it is not time for me to work, and I shouldn't be contacted by my company and feel pressured to answer the call.

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I think a lot of founders would compare their startup to having a baby. Imagine if someone said “I want to have a baby but absolutely no waking up at 2AM”, you would be laughed at.

Likewise, lots of engineers in tech are compensated in equity so you have a stake in the business. in that case the lines on what constitutes personal time are less defined. I don’t see it as a bad thing if I’m on vacation and need to grab a laptop and help on an incident. I’ll take an extra day of vacation later or sleep in the next day. Life doesn’t have to be so inflexible.

Parents wake up for their own babies. Very few engineers have a meaningful stake in the business. And on call hours aren't proportional to equity generally. Imagine if someone said they expected someone else to wake up for their baby in exchange for lottery tickets.

They said on call is ethical if an employee is willing and compensated accordingly. Additional paid time off is compensation.

> Imagine if someone said “I want to have a baby but absolutely no waking up at 2AM”, you would be laughed at.

Okay, now imagine that I have a baby. I offer you a .0001% ownership in the baby, and you have to get (potentially, but often actually) woken up for 1 week out of every 6.

Does that sound like an arrangement that a rational, healthy, self actualized person would agree to? Of course not. You're getting all of the downside and none of the upside. In fact in many cases the "leadership" team themselves aren't even on call!

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