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Comment by onepointsixC | Hacker News Reader

Because of qualified immunity they do not fear any sort of repercussions from the law and since they got all of these military hand me down toys they've been itching to find an excuse to use them. They can do a no knock raid on the wrong house, kill the occupants, and face no repercussions.

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There are material incentives to using them too which are baked into policy.The 1033 program requires that all equipment issued through it be used within one year of the date it is granted. In addition to being "fun toys" there are real structural incentives too.

> The 1033 program requires that all equipment issued through it be used within one year of the date it is granted.

Wow, do you have a citation for that?

I checked against a Vox article before posting but neglected to cite because of perceived bias. I'll see if I can pull up an original source.

Edit:

States are apparently required to file an LESO operation plan. Here is an example from the Minnesota LESO operation plan

Section III. C.

> ... are required to utilize property within one year or schedule its return

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/hsem/homeland-security/Document...

The wording is probably something like "return after finished mission or within one year" because the equipment is loaned. I'd expect terms to vary wildly based on what the equipment is and who is receiving it.

https://www.dla.mil/DispositionServices/Offers/Reutilization... has request forms.

As an aside, wording seems to be an important part of formulating these requests too. There was an interesting example used in coaching correct requests. Don't say you need blankets to keep detainees warm. Instead say you need blankets so that LEOs can provide detainees with warmth. Important apparently bc the property is primarily for the benefit of LEOs.

This seems to be a requirement in at least a few states:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Property+obtained+under+this+SPO+m...

“Property obtained under the SPO must be placed into use within one (1) year of receipt, unless the condition of the property renders it unusable, in which case the property can be returned to the nearest DLA Disposition Services Site. If property is not put into use by the LEA within one (1) year, the State/LEA must coordinate a transfer of property to another LEA or request a turn-in to return the property to the nearest DLA Disposition Services Site. All costs associated with the transportation, turn-in, or other expenses related to property obtained through the LESO 1033 Program, is the sole responsibility of the LEA.”

Further, despite 2A advocates claiming it is there to defend against tyranny, the police do not actually fear violent repercussions after the fact because it pretty much never happens. (Of course they do fear attack in the moment, when they're instigating.)

> the police do not actually fear violent repercussions after the fact because it pretty much never happens

On the rare occurrences when it happens it does change how the agency involved approaches things in the future. See Waco vs Bundy ranch.

Do you mean the Branch Davidians?

What do you mean? No one faced any repercussions for the deaths of all those people. No one was fired. The officers in charge continued to have successful careers.

No government agency attempted anything like the Branch Davidian raid for the next 15 years.

How often were they doing this before the Branch Davidian raid? I honestly don't know. If it was rare it's hard to infer anything from what they've done or not done since.

The Branch Dividian raid was supposed to be an easy political win for the feds "look at all these guns we've taken from these christian fundamentalist wackos" to distract from the Ruby Ridge incident a year prior that everyone hated them for.

Of note, both lethal cases occurred over failure to submit 4 pages of registration and a $200 tax (NFA Form 1 or 4).

There was a clear trajectory toward increasing such aggressive raids. Quarter-century-old details escape me at the moment, but many were quite aware of such things ramping up. The Ruby Ridge incident was comparably violent but on a smaller scale, a high-profile violent raid occurring a year earlier.

While there were no known punishments for agents/managers of the Branch Davidian incident, there was clearly a massive change in attitude toward using such tactics, lasting decades. The Elian Gonzales incident seemed a hesitating/reluctant resumption 15 years after, again avoided thereafter. The Bundy Ranch incident seemed ready to go there again, but was largely dissuaded by armed citizens. Of late, perceived rhetoric pointing toward resuming aggressive raids is increasing, but held back back per plurality of sentiment willing to fight back.

Note that I'm referring to incidents perpetrated by federal agents. Local police, as the lead article depicts, are ramping up aggressive raids faster - with some, as noted, learning by law or lead that doing so is a bad idea.

Nobody faced any repercussions because the feds never do but the next time that situation rolled around they handled it far more properly.

You tend to see the same thing in police departments where officers get shot conducting unnecessary no-knocks. Of course it never makes more than the local news.

Hard disagree. For example, when doing a drug bust on a drugs kingpin the government won't bring out the bearcat. They very calmly arrange a meeting and work out a deal.

Exactly. When someone "matters" they tail them and then "stop them for a tail light out" or find some other pretext to whisk them off the street. Shock and awe shit is for keeping the plebes in line.

As a non-American I've always wondered why the Walter Whites of America don't pull a Terminator on a police station after learning that their family members have been brutally executed by police officers.

The last I've really heard of someone doing that in America was the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

There are fewer Walter Whites in this country than you might expect, and the nature of it means fewer still have the resources necessary to do something like that. Probably good news overall since most of them wouldn't pick targets we'd like them to pick.

It isn't the Walter Whites and their families that are being brutalized. Walter was a multimillionaire and business owner (car wash), the police exist to protect his assets.

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