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Comment by wayoutthere | Hacker News Reader

> I'd employ a contractor who has to itemize their invoice.

As a contractor, I would just charge you for the time it takes to itemize an invoice while I do it sitting on a call for another job I’m also billing for. And I would be very thorough with my itemization so you know exactly what you’re getting…

The non-itemized invoice is free. We can argue over contract terms if you want to or come to an arrangement if you don’t feel you got your money’s worth, but if I disagree the result is going to be completion of the terms of the contract and we go our separate ways. I’m not hurting for work, I can fire an obnoxious customer if it buys me QoL.

The pandemic tipped the balance of power from the money men to the workers. We’re going to watch this dynamic play out in ways large and small, but the net is that employees have a lot more power to set the terms of engagement than employers do right now.

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Here's what my invoice looks like for today

0.5hr chats, code reviews, time-audit

1.25hr Bug#12345

...

So I have captured the ~15 minutes I spent itemizing/cleaning up my invoice for the past day or two in a "time-audit"/misc line item.

"very thorough with my itemization" implying you'll just over bill your customer because they have the nerve to have you professionally account for your time ?

"tipped the balance of power from the money men to the workers"

Right so if they weren't operating with integrity that doesn't mean the worker shouldn't either. Tit-fot-tat might be an optimal game theory but better to optimize for a clear conscience.

Note, I realize I am being unfair to your comment. When my customer first asked me to itemize my invoice it was an annoyance, but now I am efficient at it and see it as win-win. I just keep adding to it in real time as I work through out the day and then do a periodic clean up and aggregation.

I think the GP just hasn't discovered the magic of the "minimum billable increment" yet. Lawyers love this trick! Customer wants you to itemize the bill? No problem - it comes with a 15 minute minimum billable increment. The more demanding/PITA the client is, the longer the minimum.

Send me a text a minute after I've finished working for the day to check on the status and it takes me a minute to read and reply? No problem, I just billed the client for 15 minutes. Takes them 15 minutes to come up with and send a response that I need to respond to ASAP? Another 15 minutes billed. Want me to spend 3 minutes at the end of the day itemizing the bill? Perfect, that's another 15 minutes billed!

The more granular the itemizing, the more opportunity to shove the minimum billable increment in their face. Called me for a two minute chat while I'm in the zone on their project? Gotta itemize it! 15 minutes billed and I restart the work (out of the zone) at the top of the next interval.

I'm a regular employee but at a professional services org - you basically described how I generate my timesheets.

The main difference is that at the end of the day I try to just stop when I have "enough" hours, since I don't get paid for overtime like I would as a contractor.

To the original topic: roughly 40% of my week is wasted on pointless meetings or inter-meeting dead time. The other time is roughly equally split between useful meetings, actual work, and admin or training tasks.

The issue with the pointless meetings is that they are generally a series, where one 10-minute slot out of every four one-hour meetings is genuinely useful - but you don't know in advance when that slot will occur. The other kind of pointless meetings generally involve customers who are unprepared.

> Called me for a two minute chat while I'm in the zone on their project? Gotta itemize it! 15 minutes billed and I restart the work (out of the zone) at the top of the next interval.

That's double billing and afaik illegal, you can not (and rightly so) bill your customer twice for the same time.

A minimum billable increment is not double billing when properly outlined in a contract. If one item is an hour and two minutes and is interrupted by a three minute item, the bill comes out to 65 minutes of work and 25 minutes of contractually obligated rounding. Anything that had to be item had to be rounded up to the minimum and that's the price the client had to pay for itemization. I wasn't going to play guessing games about which calls counted as an item and which ones didn't.

I’m very fair with how I bill my clients, and I do bill distinct tasks on separate timers. This means I’ll sometimes have a dangling 5min to be attached later to a 15min increment when I resume it. But yes, if my task is interrupted for another billable thing, that is a new clock that’s started, because it’s another task that’s tracked separately.

Okay, so then just take a 13 minute break after the call and then start working again

There’s a lot of grey area and nobody can prove it either way. If you maintain good relationships with your clients and keep them happy, they don’t ask questions.

Consulting is a relationship business. You’ll make way more money focusing on the people rather than the work. You can cover up sloppy execution with a good relationship, but stellar execution won’t save a project where you fuck up the client relationship.

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