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Comment by onion2k | Hacker News Reader

The important thing to remember is that everyone does this. You have your bullshitometer, but so does the person you're communicating with. They're looking for the k/vv ratio in what you write too. And while you might believe you're writing clear, succinct messages with Just The Facts, they're seeing bullshit flammery excuse-making wrapped in technical jargon to hide your incompetence.

Everyone believes they're a good communicator because no one is capable of judging their own writing. To hold that against them is unkind, just as it'd be unkind for someone to hold your comms against you.

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Nope. This is a typical categorical fallacy: nobody can ever truly achieve the ideal, therefore everyone is equally flawed and we should stop judging others.

Do people often lack self-awareness and accuse others of things for which they are equally culpable? Sure. But objective reality does, in fact, exist and therefore it is possible to identify objective standards and judge people according to their performance along them.

objective reality does, in fact, exist

Maybe. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25233590-800-the-quan...

... only when people agree on their hallucinations.

Summary of a talk by brain researcher Anil Seth: https://youtu.be/a54QHJYC8lM

Bullshit is not the same as "bad communicator" and is not the opposite of "clear" and "succinct". On the contrary, I would say that an expert bullshiter displays very good communication (and usually political) skills.

Bullshit is to purposely mislead or say things that actually don't convey anything, e.g. in order not to commit to anything or to leave wriggle room for later.

Can we add media / "journalists" as well?

That said, truth be told, in the realm of politics and media the more accurate word for bullshit is propaganda.

Sometimes bullshit is the only way to satisfy some people without promising them unrealistic things. It's a valuable skill to have in political environments, just be aware of when you are using it and why.

So much yes! What?

Are you saying my k/vv needs to be discounted by a hidden ratio called blackhole understanding, bu, for my inability to uplift my knowledge convergence with the ephemeral business strategy?

And so it is, (k/vv)^PI/bu

Thank you sir.

Yes, but “Jason has plans moving forward after his transition elsewhere” is different from “We really do not know what Jason will do after being sacked.”

Thanks! It's great practice to look for your own fault first before finding it in others.

I noticed how deep in bullshit territory Western society is when talking to people from former communist Eastern Germany (until maybe the early 2000s), a place where self-promotion wasn't a thing, where nothing could be gained by bullshitting.

People would just plain state a realistic state of their affairs, like that they're unemployed, whereas I thought "dude you just moved here 2 weeks ago and you'll find work in no time, don't put yourself down like that". It was really eye-opening how much self-promotion is going on even among the most humble people.

This is even true in relationships. I learned it the hard way with my SO.

And I learn it every day.

She was born in GDR and even being only 8 years old when the wall came down she inherited that from her early years and her family's way of communication (while nowadays most of her family adapted the bs style of self protection/promotion).

At first I felt pain at (to me sounding harsh) truth. But I learned to value it as a great corrective to my bs tendency.

That reminds about those Elizabeth Holmes' affirmations recently mentioned here - there was something like "I will call out BS immediately" yet there was no affirmations wrt. being called out on BS.

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