Comment by imilk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by imilk | Hacker News Reader

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If you look at income inequality, the United States is far more unequal than Sweden:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

If you look at wealth inequality, they are pretty much exactly the same:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_in...

But that also leaves out large programs in Sweden that vastly narrow the gap between rich & poor, which America does not have. Namely universal healthcare, free child care, free prenatal care, free school lunches, free college, union participation in 70% of the workforce (which provides additional unemployment benefits & pensions), and most retired persons being able to receive multiple public & private pensions. You cannot measure the desperation of poor in America vs Sweden without taking all of this into account.

Furthermore, I'm struggling to see what your point is. All of the policies I listed above are considered "far left" by many people in America, yet seem to reduce the desperation of lower classes (and crime). So are you saying the America and cities like SF should adopt these "far left" policies? Because that's the exact opposite view of the parent comments that I've been replying to.

Being poor in and of itself isn’t a globally accurate predictor of crime rate.

This would seem to contradict your earlier statement:

> [Crime is] much more a result of the gross economic disparity found in America than any "far left" policies.

The reason this can’t be true is China and Sweden have comparable wealth disparity to the US, yet vastly better public safety outcomes. If “gross economic disparity” were as predictive of crime as you claim, surely China and Sweden would have comparable crime rates to the US, irrespective of social programs. The fact they have much lower crime rates than the US disproves economic determinism along this axis.

> Being poor in and of itself isn’t a globally accurate predictor of crime rate.

If you look at income inequality (with a few exception), it is not the sole predictor, but it gets you pretty damn close. Of course there are many other factors, but there is still an extremely strong correlation. After all, if the poor are not extremely disconnected from wealth, there is less incentive to resort to crime.

Income inequality is a much better measure of inequality than wealth inequality. Just like how a cash flow statement is much better at describing the health of a business than their balance sheet. If you don't have the cash to pay the bills, you're screwed. I have explicitly said that countries with authoritarian governments are an exception to the correlation and factored in how massive social programs (like the ones in Sweden) decrease inequality. And you would see those decreases if you looked at income inequality, where the US is 2-3x as unequal as Sweden by almost every measure.

> If “gross economic disparity” were as predictive of crime as you claim, surely China and Sweden would have comparable crime rates to the US, irrespective of social programs.

Why would it be irrespective of social programs when social programs (largely supported by the "far left") reduce inequality? That doesn't make any sense.

You are straw-manning my argument to that of "wealth inequality is the sole determining factor of crime". This is something that I have explicitly not said and given you multiple reasons why. It's an extremely weak and disingenuous way to have a discussion, and frankly makes this entire exchange pointless. Try to actually engage with the people your speaking to in the future and you'll have more meaningful interactions.

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