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Comment by vmception | Hacker News Reader

> and Mr. Herbert had close contacts among the Quileute and Hoh peoples of the Olympic Peninsula in Washington State

I think headlines and articles should refer to the specific peoples, I'm of the view that we need to normalize mentioning the specific people/tribes/collectives because its overinclusive since all them are separate. Its not really weighed by a random indigenous person saying "I'm fine with Indian" or "I'm fine with First Nations" etc, its more about how it doesn't provide any context for people with 100s of years of shared history, many of which have semi-sovereignty and autonomy.

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We all need this. I did a DNA test and found I’m mixed European from at least 15 different backgrounds..tired of just being called ‘white’.

Well, back in Europe we don’t call ourselves “white” :]

While not entirely the case, white as an ethnic group is mostly a new world thing that has seeped back to the old world. White also is a large group with individuals a lot wouldn’t think of as white

E.g. most ethnicity questionnaires label white as the descendants of the original Europeans and North Africans.

> E.g. most ethnicity questionnaires label white as the descendants of the original Europeans and North Africans.

So, for example Arabs and Berbers count as white in the US??

Steve Jobs passed, and his heritage is all the way in Syria.

A lot of people come to the US and inherit its institutions, because of the way they look, and drop all the baggage they experienced from the places they come from. It is very common for people to conform by changing their name and accent and dress style, if their skin color did most if the blending in for them. (Note that Just as many “white” people don't figure it out, and experience poverty or mediocrity which is also quite harsh in the US even if the living and food conditions are generally are decent.)

The same concept has not been conducive to people with more divergent physical phenotypes like eye shape or skin color.

Syrians definitely are Caucasian (unless they are 100% Arab I guess, but I’m not sure there’s all that many of those in Syria.) If Syrians don’t count as white I don’t see how Greeks can be or many other Balkan peoples.

Not Arabs (and not 100% sure about berbers) since Arabs didn’t arrive until the Arab invasions in the 7-800s AD. Peoples idea about the northern Middle East and North Africa is relatively skewed by modern day demographics. This is why people poke fun at pictures of Jesus for not being Arab or black despite the fact he was likely to look similar to Syrians etc or other groups native to the region. They are projecting the modern day into the past.

yet there are so many Hispanic/Latin subdivision get listed on every form.

Why not the same for 'Asian'. its not like that is a useful demographic label as it including everyone from the arabian penisula to the Urals to Korea to Indonesia, essentially half world population

I agree with this as well, I hate how comedians perpetuate this invalidation when someone is trying to tell you their background and the comedian is like “so white, white and white, you mean ‘white’”

In my experience you can learn a lot about someone’s likely customs, dating expectations, traditions, religious upbringing just by knowing what kind of european they have in them.

The 1880s German immigrants to the US completely missed slavery and the Nazis so its tragic for some kid of that heritage to be grouped into the generic white guilt idea if they accidentally walked into a segregated space at Berkeley, for example. Its just not nuanced enough.

There were still racist real estate covenants in Minnesota, etc.

I can acknowledge off the top of my head that there were plenty of opportunities to be exclusionary, or not help inclusionary legislation or actively participate in exclusion, or merely being a recipient of a GI Bill mortgage.

I still feel people need to be treated more so as individuals, and that more support for progressive ideas will come from acknowledging the individual. Especially when that individual may have the power or network to help the cause.

>In my experience you can learn a lot about someone’s likely customs, dating expectations, traditions, religious upbringing just by knowing what kind of european they have in them.

I mean... really? I didn't even have a clear idea of what kind of European I have in me until my 20's. No one had ever gotten around to telling me my Dutch-surname came about via Dutch immigrants to Ireland.

That doesn’t mean the Dutch and Irish culture of the time hasn’t helped shape who you are though

You'd know more about me and my family background from knowing that I come from multiple generations of "The one kid that picked up and moved away from the family at 18" on both sides, than you would from knowing what kind of immigrants my family all ultimately were.

Which is also a distinctly American experience.

> The 1880s German immigrants to the US completely missed slavery and the Nazis so its tragic for some kid of that heritage to be grouped into the generic white guilt idea if they accidentally walked into a segregated space at Berkeley, for example. Its just not nuanced enough.

What difference should it make for you? I honestly don't get this idea of inheriting guilt or being directly responsible for the actions of your forebears.

It doesn't make a difference to me, some people are susceptible to actually playing along with that idea of responsibility. My observation is that some of those people are less applicable participants than others.

Yes. It's like always saying "Europeans," when the subject may specifically involve Greeks, Swedes, Celts, etc.

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