Comment by ScarletEmerald | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ScarletEmerald | Hacker News Reader

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Available evidence strongly suggests Trump and his campaign coordinated with representatives of Russian government interests that involved both significant lawbreaking and a targeted media campaign that resulted in a victory for Trump that would not have occurred otherwise. Whether that's semantically equivalent to "colluded with Putin to cheat in the election" I don't know.

What you're saying, is itself an example of propaganda, in the sense that it's a simplification that while technically true leads a reader to reach a different conclusion that what actually occurred. And it's easy to do, because reality is complicated while disinformation can be simple. No, Donald Trump did not sit down in a hotel or pick up a phone and directly conspire with Vladimir Putin to scheme about how to change vote totals. Here's what is known to have happened:

Trump publicly asked Russia for help https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/donald-trump-calls-...

Hours later Russian military intelligence began launching phishing emails at Clinton's office https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/439559-mueller-russ...

Hackers aligned with the Russian government succeeded in accessing DNC emails and other information https://apnews.com/article/technology-europe-russia-hacking-...

Trump's campaign coordinated the release of the stolen information https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-campaign...

Trump's campaign handed campaign data to a suspected Russian intelligence asset https://news.yahoo.com/us-says-russia-given-trump-044416162....

Russian information operations ran an online campaign to benefit Trump's campaign https://www.npr.org/2019/10/08/768319934/senate-report-russi...

Russian efforts were decisive in Trump's win https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/25/17898804/cyberwar-kathlee...

> Available evidence strongly suggests Trump and his campaign coordinated with representatives of Russian government interests that involved both significant lawbreaking and a targeted media campaign that resulted in a victory for Trump that would not have occurred otherwise. Whether that's semantically equivalent to "colluded with Putin to cheat in the election" I don't know.

The Mueller report disagrees. What available evidence exactly do you have which the special council investigation did not? Cite your sources please.

> What you're saying, is itself an example of propaganda, in the sense that it's a simplification that while technically true leads a reader to reach a different conclusion that what actually occurred. And it's easy to do, because reality is complicated while disinformation can be simple.

No it's not, what I am saying is almost verbatim from the Mueller report. No evidence was found implicating Trump or his campaign of colluding (conspiring) with Russians. I can dig out quotes from it verbatim or cite page numbers for you if you have not read it or disagree. EDIT: I have done so in another reply, if you are interested.

> No, Donald Trump did not sit down in a hotel or pick up a phone and directly conspire with Vladimir Putin to scheme about how to change vote totals.

Strawman, that is not what was being argued against.

> Here's what is known to have happened:

> Trump publicly asked Russia for help https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/donald-trump-calls-...

Firstly, Rachel Maddow has a very poor and biased record on the whole Russia story. Part of the propaganda, I would say. So no need for that opinion piece, we can link direct to the actual video of the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kxG8uJUsWU

This is not evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to hack the election. It's clearly a joke that is typical of his jokes during his campaign rallies. Does it not ring any alarm bells with you that this is the keystone "evidence" that gets wheeled out by people who claim they have proof Trump colluded with Putin?

What we actually know is that there was never any evidence that Trump colluded with Putin, the alleged evidence that was the foundation of the wire tapping and investigation was fabricated https://nypost.com/2021/11/09/ex-state-dept-spox-slams-schif... and prominent politicians on intelligence committees lied to the public about what evidence they had https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-adam-schiff-transcripts....

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