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Comment by pphysch | Hacker News Reader

> We have plenty of evidence of the Uyghur genocide from 3rd party journalists and satellite imagery.

No, we don't. The vast majority of primary "evidence" comes out of the ETIM lobby (WUC, Adrian Zenz, et al.) and war lobby (ASPI, etc). All of it massively signal-boosted by the mainstream corporate media. Both sources have a very, very clear (conflict of) interest in manufacturing anti-China sentiment.

Grainy satellite imagery of ordinary schools and prisons is only admissible as "concentration camps" if you're a shameless propagandist.

It's quite literally the same playbook as "Saddam's WMDs", with similarly cynical goals. Because it worked. And it's been similarly effective at duping the average media consumer.

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Not to throw the book at you but here is a pretty hugely detailed article with near 500 sources from very diverse media https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Linking a heavily manipulated Wikipedia article is the definition of fallacious book-throwing.

Do you have any primary evidence that isn't blatant hearsay, Google Earth speculation, or bad-faith mistranslations? In my extensive research, virtually 100% of "the evidence" falls into these 3 easily manipulated categories.

The year is 2022. There should be convincing photo and video evidence of the supposed atrocities. Western intelligence community has high-resolution aerial cameras. China has a billion people on social media, some using VPNs. There would certainly be whistleblowers. Smoking guns of this alleged Holocaust should be everywhere, on a daily basis. But they're suspiciously absent.

WMDs all over again.

I mean no, I don't have a list with more than 500 sources for you, so if this one is insufficiently exhaustive then I guess we are at an impasse

If you are acting in good faith, it should be easy for you to produce an example of primary evidence I requested from your Wikipedia page.

If you are genuinely interested you can look through that page yourself to see if you can find evidence matching your stringent criteria :) I am not able to read your mind to guess what you’ll find convincing and am sure you can do your own research provided the starting point.

In any case, have a wonderful day!

Nice deflection. Let me know when those WMDs show up.

I can't believe I'm replying to you it's so pointless but I can't help myself.

There are tons of sources showing that the facilities you can see plainly in satellites are internment centers. And schools which you can see barbed wire etc.

BUT how about looking at the opposite. What you can see erased.

One can view a cultural genocide from the air plain as day. The erasure of Uighyer cultural and religious spaces. Just a couple sources below.

Let me save you your reply, that's fake or some US government plot planted BS, that's not a primary source (even though the articles give the primary), etc.

I read through your profile and I'm pretty surprised by the huge volume of consistent comments so I guess good for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/07/revealed-new-e... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/25/world/asia/xi... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/07/revealed-new-e...

I specifically asked you to not rely on grainy satellite image speculation, yet you proceed to rely on grainy satellite image speculation.

There are countless reasons why a building might be there one day and look differently a while later. Renovation, relocation, temporary decoration, disaster, weather, different time of day/year, different camera, different postprocessing, etc. Maybe a mosque even was used as a training site for violent extremists and was transformed/demolished for that reason. Maybe one photo is doctored. Maybe PRC is populated and ruled by comic book villains that do Wicked Evil Stuff for no discernable reason.

Scrutiny is required.

Yet ideologues act as if "genocide" is the only possible answer. Unspeakably deranged.

Ironically, this propaganda campaign makes it easy to understand how Nazi Germany could get to the point of industrial genocide. Because it turns out the people are eager to believe deranged, racist, hateful conspiracy theories about the "enemy", in this case the Chinese Communists, as long as the mass media plays along.

On an unrelated note, anti-Asian hate crimes are way up in America.

Little Eichmanns.

if you clicked the links there are also on the ground photos.

i believe scrutiny is required when reading anything you write on this site, based on this and past comments.

You don't have an argument, so you resort to ad hominem (which is against HN rules). Incredible. Happy new year.

Yeah dude some of the linked satellite photos are pretty clear even for a layperson and as OP says there are direct on the ground photos as well. The investigative group Bellingcat also has a pretty good history of journalism, I'd suggest you check out their background and works.

For additional info, there are multiple books written on the topic as well, ex:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5968247-dragon-fighter

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8137115-the-uyghurs

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57894290-menace

You can find many more if you do a Google search

I am intimately familiar with Bellingcat's history of being funded by Western governments, laundering Western intelligence and outright fabricating "evidence" like the OPCW draft letter or the Navalny phone call. They are the furthest thing from a reliable, trustworthy source on geopolitical matters concerning Washington's opponents.

For the last time, if a literal genocide of millions of people is happening in 2022, and perpetrated by the public enemy #1 of the only media superpower on the planet, there would be primary evidence everywhere. Yet all you guys can do is point to a mountain of bullshit and say "go find the needle".

Cowardly and disrespectful.

I did link to several books which provide primary accounts. But that aside, could you cite any of the info you quoted on Bellingcat, specifically its fabrication of evidence? I recently picked up a book on them, but have not read it yet, so would be curious to read your perspective as well.

Thanks!

"Primary accounts" or primary evidence? Give me $1,000 and I'll produce a video of an Asian-looking person alleging any atrocity you want.

Aaron Maté has done a lot of thorough investigative journalism into Bellingcat's lies and shady affiliations with Western intelligence.

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