Just Say “No” To Mailing List Spam by Recruiters | Hacker News Reader

Just Say “No” To Mailing List Spam by Recruiters

code.dblock.org

15 pointsdblock24 comments

I was getting ready to launch into a tirade about how we aren't all that bad but I won't. Most of us are terrible and those that take advantage of a niche usergroup for the purpose of acting as a middleman are literally throwing shit at a wall and hoping some of it sticks.

London Ruby User Group has the same issue with recruiters posting vague job descriptions but the issue is that despite this unwanted approach, they do get results.

I have no idea how many people are on the MongoDB mailing list but if there are more than 100 people I would be willing to bet my extortionate fee's that they get at least five decent candidates emailing them asking for more information and ultimately ending up being represented by the agency.

Is there really any need for the naughty-secretary "She uses MongoDB" image at the top of this blog post?

You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists.

I've been trying to parse this and just kind of failing. Is the implication that of course a naughty secretary wouldn't know anything about MongoDB?

I am used to people not connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star.

UPDATE: I removed the pornographic infographic, I don't want to have a debate about it.

And porn stars aren't capable of using MongoDB?

Not sure why you deleted my comment btw - slightly over-aggressive moderation there? Your prerogative I guess.

ETA: appreciate you sending me an e-mail.

I am used to people no connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star.

A bit of advice going forwards: this isn't a national-or-otherwise sense of humour issue. I have no doubt there are many people from many different countries that have a knowledge of famous porn stars. There'll also be lots who don't... and that's without getting in to the whole objectifying women debate ;-)

You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists.

Honestly, I think it removes some of your post's effectiveness. Using a photo of a model with her blouse unbuttoned and writing SHE USES MONGODB over the top... I'm wondering if I'm missing something; are you being ironic and using using one inappropriate action to illustrate another? :)

OK, OK, porn removed, too many people are now focusing on the porn instead of the topic, thanks for the comments.

I don't hate recruiters. There are a few really great ones and a whole lot of really bad ones. I don't fault them for trying to make a living, but I do recognize that the entire practice of placement fees is what drives these bad behaviors.

The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent.

The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent.

Correct. The problem is that this isn't likely to happen as so many companies need extra resource to help them recruit and will suffer the costs willingly.

The three approaches I've seen mailing lists use to solve the job posting problem:

1) Have a specified criteria which jobs have to meet in order to be posted (i.e. by a regular mailing list member, direct from company, etc.)

2) Have a separate but affiliated mailing list for jobs

3) Charge for job postings (with the money typically going to the bar tab for the next mailing list meetup)

Urgh the whole recruiter-hate thing is so boring. Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living - posting a relevant ad to a mailing list occasionally is hardly the crime of the century.

Re his 3 points:

- A recruiter is never going to reveal the employer name as this risks them getting cut out of the loop

- So what if a recruiter is trying to make money? Believe it or not line managers are trying to make money too. They wouldn't employ you if they weren't getting a postive ROI.

- This _was_ a MongoDB ad, not Erlang or whatever.

Provided a post like this is occasional and relevant, I really don't see the issue. It could really help someone land a great job too.

The problem is not the existence of recruiters but spammy flavor of their posts and online profiles.

Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living

The HN High Horse is pretty justified to be fair. Most recruiters haven't the first clue about the technology they recruit for and the amount of underhanded and often illegal tactics recruiters engage in warrants most of the hate they receive.

Yes there are decent recruiters but they are a very rare breed and the decent ones generally know they are decent and consider themselves to be miles apart from the general stereotype and don't get offended by the hate.

Shameless Plug: Have a look at my blog linked in my profile for more info on why recruiters are universally hated.

I was making no reference, good or bad, to recruiters in general. I was referring to this particular example in isolation. To me that mailing list post seemed inoffensive and relevant. Assuming it's occasional, what's the problem?

What the author is doing is worse. He's using this minor indiscretion (if it's even that) to jump on the recruiter-bashing band wagon and churn out a blog post and get himself a bit of traffic.

I think the issue is that the ad is so vague that it could, and probably is, simply a fishing attempt to find candidates and generate leads. There is nothing in the ad to give you any form of confidence in the legitimacy or existence of a job. No mention of industry, the type of project involved, ideal experience required, etc. They are simply looking for 'MongoDB' people.

It's more of a waste of time and space than anything else.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not the one downvoting your posts!

OK Fortune1000 and 115k is not a huge amount of info, but it's fairly definitive nonetheless. Of course it _could_ be fishing, but that's kind of my point: because it's a recruiter everyone assumes the worst.

> I'm not downvoting your posts

Yeah sure, any opinion that diverges from the HN hivemind is gonna get dv'd in oblivion.

You're reading too much between the lines.

Quote from the post:

"Please note that I don’t think recruiters are evil. They provide valuable services to both companies and candidates. But good recruiting takes hard work, time and social skills building relationships over a long period of time – something that justifies a 25% ticket from your year’s salary upon hire. In contrast, what’s the definition of sending an e-mail to 800 people because you have their e-mail address and think they are in your target demographic? Spam."

In fairness this is an unusually well targeted email - assuming there's a real job they've effectively alerted 800 people in a relatively small niche to its existence in a relatively inoffensive way (you'd rather they did it the hard work way by bothering you at meetups and calling you to see if you're ready to ditch your startup yet? Really?). The ratio of people that might actually be interested in the job to people who wasted approximately 2 seconds parsing the email is quite high.

Now I start laughing when recruiters match me with CS graduate jobs which match up with me on their database because they're in the same part of the country as the university I went to, four years ago, in a completely different subject area...

They're not universally hated. I don't hate them for a start, and i've used recruiters as employee and employer. Like estate agents, you're SUPPOSED to hate them, and sadly it seems, most people won't think for themselves or draw their own conclusions based on the their own personal experiences.

It's not about a recruiter making a living, it's about putting signs for his business on someone elses "front yard" (the mongodb list). ["But your front yard has such great visibility, surely you don't mind if I put my signs on it?"]

A recruiter is never going to reveal the employer name as this risks them getting cut out of the loop

We (Hackruiter, YC S10) are fully transparent about the companies we work with and it's never been a problem.

When you don't reveal the company name you tend to look like this guy: http://www.meetup.com/New-York-MongoDB-User-Group/messages/2... - maybe do some A/B testing and see whether you get better candidates or not.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com