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Comment by austinl | Hacker News Reader

It's fascinating how culture has effects on architecture. So many older American homes have small kitchens that are separate from a formal dining room. Historically, a family member or cook would be making food separately, out of the way, and then it was presented in the dining room.

Today, everyone wants a kitchen that's integrated with the dining area. Cooking has been culturally elevated – people don't feel like they need to do it out of the way. But unfortunately, many of these older homes cannot be easily modified. Walls are often load-bearing instead of being reconfigurable.

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Not just American homes. In Europe all the new flats and houses are designed with kitchens merged with the dining room. Even the old flats are often redesigned by owners or developers by tearing down the wall(s), separating the kitchen from the other room(s). I personally hate this trend because I don't like getting cooking odors all over the place. I'll probably just build a wall whenever I'd be forced to buy such a place.

The solution to cooking odors is to have adequate ventilation that exits the structure. It blows me away that this is not code in every kitchen and bathroom. I live in rules-heavy CA and my kitchen vent "exhausts" back into the kitchen.

Every time there are people gathering at someone's house, they tend to congregate in the kitchen as that's where the food action is all at. Give me one big open space with kitchen, dining space and a living room all in one. Open concept is highly desirable in modern housing.

With proper ventilation this isn't an issue. My kitchen is centrally located, so I installed a range hood made by a Chinese company (Fotile, approximately $1300 on Amazon). It works exceptionally well. Even the smokiest/smelliest cooking odors don't escape.

This is super funny to me. I just bought a house where the kitchen is separate. My parents, and my mother-in-law were all like... "you can knock down the wall and bring the rooms together"... and I was like: "hell no. As if I want a bunch of kids playing tag while I'm chopping things with sharp knives and running around with burning oil."

...Leave me alone to cook an awesome meal in peace. I'm working in there not messing around.

I'm actually designing a new house and was surprised at the resistance I'm getting from the builders/architects in having a kitchen which is out of the way of the rest of the house. Like you, I'm not interested in dumping hot oil all over a kid/dog/mother who decides to run through the kitchen despite the blockade I set up to keep them out.

That, and kitchens require so much maintenance to keep clean and presentable. I hate how my entire house feels dirty because it's visible from any public spot in the house that I didn't get around to cleaning a few pans the night before.

I'd guess that's because of another phenomenon: A "good" house is one ready to sell to the next guy. Youre never living in your own house, always the next buyer's house. Hence the need to keep up with the latest fads, desired by the next guy who is buying from you for the sake of the next guy.

What I see a lot of in my region (US PNW) is open kitchens integrating with informal dining areas (breakfast nook, or seating at a kitchen island) and living rooms. But most houses are still built with a separate dining room. Heck, my house was even built with a butler's pantry to connect them. That's pretty common.

You have a separate dining room if you’re building a 6 room or larger MANSION. Calling a building with a separate dining room on top of a kitchen plus informal dining room as a Regular home seems to be a stretch.

That's regional, of course. I'm talking bog-standard everyday houses in the 2500-3500sf range, no mansions.

2500sf is 232 square meters. That's three normal family city apartments by European standards. I guess houses just run bigger there but sounds quite excessive nonetheless.

"Excessive" is a moral judgement. City apartments aren't typically 2500sf in the US, either. I was referring to single family detached homes, which are by far the dominant type of dwelling in my region. Land is cheap, wood is cheap. A 2500sf house will be a good bit cheaper than a little flat in most western European cities, I bet.

Didn't mean it as a moral judgement, sorry if that was not the right choice of words.

This seems cultural for sure. I grew up in an apartment built in early 1970s with separate kitchen. To this day most apartments in my country are planned w/o open kitchens.

It is actually an ongoing joke with my partner, who has lived an open-kitchen life until meeting me.

PS: would be interesting to correlate enclosed kitchen with cost and availability of home labourers (slaves, maids, cooks, etc)

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